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Not okay: ‘Deseret News’ uses anti-gay advocate as credible pollster
October 13, 2011
Cross-posted at Good As You
By Jeremy Hooper
Back during the Prop 8 battle, Mormon writer and pollster Gary Lawrence contributed some of the most jaw-dropping rhetoric around. For instance, check out this summer of ’08 article, wherein he framed the whole thing as a battle between “Lucifer” and “the Creator’s plan”:
(*forgive the unsightly presentation — it’s an archived copy with dead images)
Lawrence was also behind the widely distributed pamphlet (though it was originally printed anonymously):
Six Consequences If Proposition 8 Fails
1. Children in public schools will be taught that both traditional marriage and same-sex marriage are okay.
The California Education Code already requires that health education classes instruct children about marriage. (§51890)
Therefore, if the definition of marriage is changed, children will be taught that marriage is a relation between any two adults. There will be serious clashes between the secular school system and the right of parents to teach their children their own values and beliefs.
2. Churches will be sued if they refuse to allow same-sex marriage ceremonies in their religious buildings that are open to the public. Ask whether your pastor, priest, minister, bishop, or rabbi is ready to perform such marriages in your chapels and sanctuaries.
3. Religious adoption agencies will be challenged by government agencies to give up their long-held right to place children only in homes with both a mother and a father. Catholic Charities in Boston has already closed its doors because of the legalization of same-sex marriage in Massachusetts.
4. Religions that sponsor private schools and which provide housing for married students will be required to provide housing for same-sex couples, even if it runs counter to church doctrine, or lose tax exemptions and benefits.
5. Ministers who preach against same-sex marriages will be sued for hate speech and could be fined by the government. It has already happened in Canada, one of six countries that have legalized gay marriage.
6. It will cost you money. A change in the definition of marriage will bring a cascade of lawsuits. Even if courts eventually find in favor of a defender of traditional marriage (highly improbable given today’s activist judges), think of the money – your money, your church contributions – that will have to be spent on legal fees.
This in from Gary Lawrence: Consequences of Do Nothing [Yes on Prop 8 Blog]
The obvious: Lawrence is far from an objective voice or pollster. At the very least, any media outlets who cites his work has a responsibility to elucidate what Gary Lawrence has himself put on the record, so that readers can understand the spirit from whence the data stems.
Which brings us to the heavily Mormon Deseret News, the second largest daily publication in Utah. That paper is now pushing a supposed new poll conducted by Lawrence, without any sort of mention of the pollster’s background. Here’s a snip and link to the full piece:
SANTA ANA, Calif. — When it comes to polls about same-sex marriage, it’s all about how you ask the question. A new national poll by Lawrence Research found that 64 percent of Americans feel that marriage should only be between one man and one woman. Thirty-three percent feel marriage should be redefined to include any two people.
The poll results may seem to contradict a Gallup poll in May that found 53 percent of Americans thought “marriage between same-sex couples should … be recognized by the law as valid, with the same rights as traditional marriage.”
64% don’t support gay marriage new poll says [Deseret News]
(H/t: Bob Barnes)
The paper pits Lawrence against Gallup, as if they are two trusted bookends. The most mention Deseret gives to Lawrence’s Prop 8 work comes via this little snip:
Gary Lawrence is the president of Lawrence Research in Santa Ana, Calif., and is very familiar with both the topic and the polling. His company conducted polls in 2008 for the “Yes on 8″ campaign, which successfully pushed for the passage of Proposition 8 in California to define marriage as between a man and a woman.
That’s it. They don’t mention that he actively and aggressively advocated for Prop 8′s passage and that he’s connected to the “protect marriage” movement. They don’t give insight into Lawrence’s outwardly religious motivations. They don’t mention that he routinely conducts polls for groups like the National Organization For Marriage, even though the paper gives NOM’s Maggie Gallagher a forum to comment on how powerful Lawrence’s work supposedly is. They simply push the idea that one of America’s most trusted polling firms, Gallup, is being handily challenged by another, equally weighted outfit.
That is not only unfair: It is downright negligent!
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26 Comments Leave a Comment
1.
Alan_Eckert | October 13, 2011 at 10:54 am
∞
2.
Ann S. | October 13, 2011 at 10:56 am
§
3.
Gregory in SLC | October 13, 2011 at 10:58 am
I'm not a fan of Desnews, however, I admired they posted this obituary yesterday (along with guestbook, many have signed it):
http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/deseretnews/obit…
4.
Ronnie | October 13, 2011 at 11:10 am
Subscribing & sharing……..
"Mario Lopez, Dustin Lance Black and more amplify their voice against anti-LGBT bullying"……<3…Ronnie:
[youtube QOw1xXbA4cE http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOw1xXbA4cE youtube]
5.
Bob | October 13, 2011 at 11:30 am
Gary Lawrence,,, is correct in what he states,,,, "the whole thing being a battle between Lucifer, and the Creators Plan"
That's the way the religious right frames it,, no matter how wrong we see that point of view,,, that is the bottom line so well said,,,,, that's what comes out of the mouths of my own family on the subject,,,, I continue pressing forward with them it's a discussion that needs to take place,,,,, it depends on individuals pusing it or Churches would continue with the norm of DADT,,,,,,
6.
AnonyGrl | October 13, 2011 at 12:44 pm
Part 1
I know we answer these questions a lot, but it is always good to reiterate… so…
Six Consequences If Proposition 8 Fails
1. Children in public schools will be taught that both traditional marriage and same-sex marriage are okay….There will be serious clashes between the secular school system and the right of parents to teach their children their own values and beliefs.
Yes, they will. No, there won’t be serious clashes. Parents will still have the right to teach their children any darned thing they like. Children, as it happens, also have the right to learn about how the Constitution of this country protects all citizens which is what will happen in school.
7.
AnonyGrl | October 13, 2011 at 12:44 pm
Part 2
2. Churches will be sued if they refuse to allow same-sex marriage ceremonies in their religious buildings that are open to the public. Ask whether your pastor, priest, minister, bishop, or rabbi is ready to perform such marriages in your chapels and sanctuaries.
Yes, they will, if those buildings get a specific tax break for BEING open to the public and the church decides to place restrictions on that. Chapels and sanctuaries are not open to the public, and can be restricted. Pastors et al being willing to perform such marriages has nothing to do with anything at all, that is the personal choice of the officiant in question.
8.
AnonyGrl | October 13, 2011 at 12:45 pm
Part 4
4. Religions that sponsor private schools and which provide housing for married students will be required to provide housing for same-sex couples, even if it runs counter to church doctrine, or lose tax exemptions and benefits.
Yes they will. Those couples will be married, and to not provide them housing would be discriminatory. Don’t like it? Don’t provide housing for anyone. Equal treatment. Period.
5. Ministers who preach against same-sex marriages will be sued for hate speech and could be fined by the government. It has already happened in Canada, one of six countries that have legalized gay marriage.
No they won’t. We don’t have hate speech laws in this country. Canada does. Don’t like it? Don’t live in Canada. I am sure Canada will thank me for this answer.
9.
AnonyGrl | October 13, 2011 at 12:45 pm
Part 5
6. It will cost you money. A change in the definition of marriage will bring a cascade of lawsuits. Even if courts eventually find in favor of a defender of traditional marriage (highly improbable given today’s activist judges), think of the money – your money, your church contributions – that will have to be spent on legal fees.
If you are upset that it costs you money, that is your own problem for GIVING the money in the first place. Upset about how your money is being spent? Don’t give it to organizations that are promoting discrimination.
10.
Straight Dave | October 13, 2011 at 1:17 pm
Slap! Slap! Slap! Slap! Slap!
5 for 5. Way to go, AnonyGrl!
This is the kind of response that should be publicized more, in the same places that the bigots spew their crap. The average person does need to read factual corrections or they will be inclined to believe the only thing they see. The lies and distortions should not go unchallenged. We all know they're crap, but a lot of people apparently don't.
This was a good series of posts. I wish there was someway to personally bookmark these.
11.
Straight Dave | October 13, 2011 at 1:21 pm
OK, so I'm way behind the times. Right clicking the "xx minutes ago" note in each post does create a direct link. Wahoo!
12.
Lesbians Love Boies | October 13, 2011 at 1:54 pm
It always amazes me that their polls seem to add up to 101%!
13.
Ronnie | October 13, 2011 at 1:57 pm
The extra 1% is "God"…… praise Jeebus!!!!!….. ; ) … Ronnie
14.
Ronnie | October 13, 2011 at 2:04 pm
Gay Military College Students Come Out, Start GSA: http://instinctmagazine.com/blogs/blog/gay-milita…
"One of the lingering questions on many people's minds when thinking about the repeal of "don't ask, don't tell" was how it would translate on college campuses among ROTCs. In short, it seems like the LGBT cadets are starting to break open the closet doors, in true soldier fashion."
"Josh Fontanez, the Norwich University senior and Corps of Cadets trainee who will commission in the Army this May, is president of the Norwich University LGBTQA Club. Fontanez had been working to create the group since last Spring while DADT was still in place. The groundwork that was laid, has enabled him to launch the group visibly this Fall and so far they have "drawn a steady 20 or so gay and straight students, staff and faculty members, and the number is slowly growing,"
<3…Ronnie
15.
fiona64 | October 13, 2011 at 2:11 pm
Rebuttal to Six Consequences if Prop 8 Fails, which is written by an LDS attorney. Mr. Thurston takes Mr. Lawrence apart quite effectively.
16.
Adam Bink | October 13, 2011 at 2:15 pm
AHAHA.
17.
Kathleen | October 13, 2011 at 2:39 pm
LOL!!
18.
Kathleen | October 13, 2011 at 3:14 pm
UPDATE: LCR v. USA (DADT case)
LCR files for rehearing (panel or en banc) http://www.scribd.com/doc/68685274
19.
AnonyGrl | October 13, 2011 at 3:48 pm
LOL NOMbie math!!!
20.
grod | October 13, 2011 at 4:42 pm
Anony Grl – You are thanked!
In Canada, ministers who 'preach' against same-sex marriages will not be sued for hate speech and could not be fined by the government. We seem to do better at seperation of religion and state. LAwrence might be mixing up 'civil marriage equality' with the circumstances of the case that went before the federal Supreme Court today on hate speech. http://www.montrealgazette.com/life/Whatcott+defe…
Since civil marriage equality came to all of Canada in 2005, I have not heard one priest/minister mention it at all in weekly church services. Truly, same-sex mariage is as much an non-issues as is different-sex marriage.
http://www.montrealgazette.com/life/Whatcott+defe…
Since civil marriage equality came to all of Canada in 2005, I have not heard one priest/minister mention it at all. Truly, marriage equality is a non-issue for gays and straights.
21.
SoCal_Dave | October 13, 2011 at 5:36 pm
Just a couple of notes from a former mormon.
The Deseret News is not just "heavily mormon" – it's owned by the mormon church.
Item #2 (Churches will be sued if they refuse to allow same-sex marriage ceremonies in their religious buildings that are open to the public. Ask whether your pastor, priest, minister, bishop, or rabbi is ready to perform such marriages in your chapels and sanctuaries.) is mind boggling coming from mormons, when you consider that the ultimate mormon marriage is in the mormon temple, which not only is NOT open to the public, it's not even open to all mormons. File under disingenuous.
22.
MarcosLB | October 13, 2011 at 5:48 pm
Bob,
I would like to re post here for you the link that Fiona64 posted below. "Rebuttal to Six Consequences if Prop 8 Fails, which is written by an LDS attorney. Mr. Thurston takes Mr. Lawrence apart quite effectively." (Thank you Fiona)
http://www.mormonsformarriage.com/wp-content/uplo…
23.
AnonyGrl | October 13, 2011 at 6:46 pm
Thank you Grod. Of course his use of "hate speech lawsuits" as a threat are ridiculous, but it is good hearing that Canada and her citizens are really much saner than so very many of my countrymen, and I wouldn't wish any of those nutjobs on you!
24.
Lynn E | October 13, 2011 at 10:24 pm
Did you really expect a survey conducted through a newpaper owned by a religious organization to be unbiased? Really? Their readers know what they are getting when they read that paper, which is precisely why they buy that paper rather than the Salt Lake Tribune. This type of reporting is what keeps FauxNews "fair and balanced."
25. Prop 8 Trial Tracker &raq&hellip | October 15, 2011 at 4:51 pm
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[...] on the National Organization for Marriage’s (herein: NOM) use of dubious polling methods to advance their claim that the majority of Americans actually oppose marriage equality. I agree with the issues presented on the website, and there are two reasons I take issue with [...]
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