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The path towards DOMA repeal from marriage in NY
July 25, 2011
By Adam Bink
Sen. Feinstein was on CNN’s State of the Union yesterday, talking DOMA repeal in the context of marriage in NY:
One of the more uncovered issues (with the exception of CNN, to their credit) is how more couples married in NY will find the pain of DOMA now more applicable to their lives, which presents our movement with a strong organizing opportunity. Many same-sex couples think their marriages are equal to heterosexual marriages. They aren’t. Or, as Larry Kramer put it in his usual forceful way:
“These marriages, in whichever state, are what I call feel-good marriages,” Kramer told The New York Times for a story published over the weekend, as the first ceremonies took place. “Compared to the benefits heterosexual marriages convey, gay marriages are an embarrassment — that we should accept so little, and with so much hoopla of excitement and self-congratulation.”
I wouldn’t dismiss the joy in the way Larry does, but his point is well-taken. As I’ve written before, I was shocked when I went home recently that for all amount that people wanted to talk about marriage in NY, no one knew what the Defense of Marriage Act was. A strong public education opportunity. The next time someone asks me “isn’t it great?”, one might reply, “yes, but…” and continue the process of educating and mobilizing.
Filed under: DOMA Repeal
110 Comments Leave a Comment
1.
Alan_Eckert | July 25, 2011 at 2:39 pm
Today is the birthday of Louise Brown, who 33 years ago, was the very first person in the world to be born through in vitro fertilization. Since then, millions of people have been able to give birth that otherwise may not have. Why do I bring this up? Well because IVF, being one option for same-sex couples, is one more reason why marriage should not be limited on the basis of procreative ability. Add in Turner v. Safley, and those two points alone make a major part of the DOMA and Prop 8 cases.
Happy Birthday Louise! http://iwanttobeagaydad.wordpress.com/2011/07/25/…
2.
Ann S. | July 25, 2011 at 2:48 pm
§
3.
equality4us | July 25, 2011 at 3:18 pm
Just want to say how much I appreciate receiving Prop 8 Trail Trackers; keeping me up on all GLBT issues and news that come up pretty much daily. Thanks for the open communication, truly grateful!
4.
AnonyGrl | July 25, 2011 at 3:50 pm
You are welcome… and welcome! Thanks for joining us! Have some cookies, and a glass of MILK.
5.
LCH | July 25, 2011 at 3:50 pm
♀♀=♂♂=♀♂=∑♡
6.
Reformed | July 25, 2011 at 4:21 pm
Can someone who isn't banned please please ask the nom blog if they are counting the delegation of six or seven from Topeka in their official number count?
7.
Bob | July 25, 2011 at 4:27 pm
hey thanks Alan, for pointing out Louise Brown,,, 33yrs,,, just think where we'll be after the passage of that time,,,,,,,,
and a huge thanks to Courage Campaign for the recent e-mail regarding the debt-ceiling,,,, much gratitude for venturing off topic to get some action on that,,,,, woot woot,,,,
8.
Ronnie | July 25, 2011 at 5:15 pm
Subscribing & sharing…..
Lesbian Couple Saved Dozens of Campers from Norway Massacre http://www.towleroad.com/2011/07/lesbian-couple-s…
Hege Dalen and her partner Toril Hansen were eating supper in the camping area opposite Utoya island when they started hearing gunshots and screaming….
Dalen and Hansen drove their boat to the island, and fished out of the water people who were in shock and young people who were injured and transported them ashore. Every now and then bullets almost hit the boat.
Since they couldn't fit everyone into the boat all at once, they returned to the island four times. They might have saved as much as forty people from the clutches of the killer.
(me) Heroes…. but you know one of NOM's allies, Joseph Mattera, that led their uncalled for & tasteless hate rally yesterday in Manhattan has said in the past that homosexuals (because equality opponents pretty much never use the term LGBT people or humans) are "self-centered" ……. http://www.goodasyou.org/good_as_you/2011/06/nyc-…
Um…yeah…. driving your boat 5 TIMES into a hail of gunfire & screams to save people, including children, is the farthest from self-centerd you can possibly get…..Hey NOM, if you don't hate gay people then don't align yourself with hate purveyors, yeah?… Oh that's right, anti-equality people are allowed to do & say whatever they want about LGBT humans as long as it is done & said in the name of their version of "God"… please… AS IF!!!!… Oh wait, the terrorist in Norway is a right-wing fundamentalist Christian….. Ooops……… <3…Ronnie
9.
Sheryl_Carver | July 25, 2011 at 7:22 pm
I would, but I seem to be randomly banned. A post will go through, then another but get subsequently removed, then others never get posted at all. Frustrating, but sometimes I'm a glutton for punishment.
From the replies I get from the comments that do get posted, I realize that the dedicated NOMers have absolutely no understanding of logic, the Constitution, reading comprehension, or morality. If Jesus himself reappeared & tried to teach them where they're going wrong, they'd call him a liberal spawn of the devil.
10.
Daniel | July 25, 2011 at 7:26 pm
Just as civil unions, no matter what benefits they purport to grant, are not equivalent to marriage, same-sex marriage is not equivalent to marriage as long as DOMA remains in effect. While of course we ought to consider the situation in the US first, we should not lose sight of the fact that this essentially prohibits recognition as legally valid same-sex marriages of couples visiting the United States from countries such as Canada where it is legal. That really ought to be a huge embarrasment to our diplomats and to the State Department. However, I don't know where a legal challenge to DOMA on these grounds could begin.
11.
Eric | July 25, 2011 at 8:05 pm
We have the two best lawyers of the year
David Boies, Theodore B. Olson to Receive American Bar Association Medal for 2011
http://www.abanow.org/2011/07/david-boies-theodor…
12.
Ronnie | July 25, 2011 at 8:42 pm
Alexander Skarsgard (True Blood) say "It Gets Better"………….<3…Ronnie:
[youtube faw-8iEpfUs&feature=player_embedded http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=faw-8iEpfUs&feature=player_embedded youtube]
13.
Tom | July 25, 2011 at 9:09 pm
Its never enough for you sodomites is it? You shouldve been content with having your sickness legalized but now you want to teach your filth in schools and raise children and get "married"? I always said legalizing sodomy would be a slippery slope.
Shame on all of you for indoctrinating children all in the name of "equal rights" (what a fucking joke)
14.
PBJ | July 25, 2011 at 9:20 pm
Ha, I love it. Lest we all forget, this is the opposing viewpoint. Is it any wonder we're winning this fight?
15.
Tom | July 25, 2011 at 9:23 pm
You're winning what lol? 33 times you sodomites pushed for the people to vote on sodomite "marriage", 33 times it got rejected. Other countries like Uganda are also strengthening their policies on sodomites. Not to mention, 53% of AIDS cases come from sodomites.
Yes, what a great time to be a sodomite.
16.
Ronnie | July 25, 2011 at 9:27 pm
BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!…… XP …Ronnie
17.
Ronnie | July 25, 2011 at 9:28 pm
ROFLMGAO……Ooops there goes another 5lbs….. now I'm going to have to go shopping….oh, who am I kidding, I was going to go shopping anyway……CHARGE IT!!!!….. XP …Ronnie
18.
DaveP | July 25, 2011 at 10:04 pm
Tom, your bigotry is unnatural and sinful. But there is hope. You were not born this way. And with help, you can change and reject your evil ways. Join all of the other people who have rejected hate and bigotry and who have found the truth. The truth will set you free.
19.
Tom | July 25, 2011 at 10:14 pm
I love how I keep getting thumbs down, especially on the comment about sodomites having the largest AIDS infection rate/ gay marriage being shot down 33/33 times by the public.
TRUTH HURTS
20.
DaveP | July 25, 2011 at 10:15 pm
Wow Tom, are you trying for a record on the number of factual errors in a single short post? You clearly don't know anything at all about the recent history of legislation and voting on equal marriage rights. And you clearly know nothing about HIV statistics. And you might want to read up on the latest news from Uganda.
…. so tell us, Tom – how does civil marriage equality hurt YOU? Please be specific and factually correct. Simply parroting NOM's meaningless talking points is an automatic forfeit of the argument. Go!
21.
Tom | July 25, 2011 at 10:15 pm
Lmao you sodomites can only reply with 'you're a bigot". You can never rebut the facts can you? You're fucking spineless and weak.
22.
Ronnie | July 25, 2011 at 10:18 pm
Yaaaaaaaaawwwwwwwwwnnnnn……. 8 / …Ronnie
23.
PBJ | July 25, 2011 at 10:19 pm
Why bother looking for a rational conversation? Just sit back and enjoy the crazy.
24.
Tom | July 25, 2011 at 10:21 pm
"You clearly don't know anything at all about the recent history of legislation and voting on equal marriage rights."
33 times it went to a PUBLIC vote it got shot down EVERY time. The American people have spoken and we collectively agree that Sodomite marriage is a joke.
"And you clearly know nothing about HIV statistics"
http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/topics/msm/pdf/msm.pdf
In 2006, MSM accounted for more than half (53%) of all new HIV infections in the United States. That means more than half of HIV infections come from sodomites LOL
"And you might want to read up on the latest news from Uganda."
95% of the population oppose homosexuality in Uganda as of 2010. Am I missing something? LOL
25.
Ronnie | July 25, 2011 at 10:21 pm
Chortle… chortle….chortle….chortle….MAUDE!!! ………. XP …Ronnie
26.
DaveP | July 25, 2011 at 10:26 pm
You offer no legitimate discussion of the issue, you simply spew vulgar insults about families you don't even know. No meaningful debate, just random obnoxious blather. So people call you a bigot. Because you ARE, Blanch. Come on, "Tom", At least have the balls to be honest and own it.
27.
DaveP | July 25, 2011 at 10:28 pm
How much does it hurt you to now be on the losing side? (Read any recent polls about what the public thinks about marriage equality?)
And more to the point, WHY does marriage equality bother you? How does it hurt YOUR marriage when the lesbian couple down the street gets equal legal rights and legal protections?
28.
Munk | July 25, 2011 at 10:30 pm
The life of the "ex-gay" is hard–I think we owe him some slack under the circumstances.
29.
Ronnie | July 25, 2011 at 10:32 pm
I want "dim sum….& dim sum more"… tee-hee ………. XP …Ronnie
30.
Tom | July 25, 2011 at 10:36 pm
Its never enough for you sodomites is it? You shouldve been content with having your sickness legalized but now you want to teach your filth in schools and raise children and get "married"? I always said legalizing sodomy would be a slippery slope.
31.
Tom | July 25, 2011 at 10:38 pm
yes anyone who opposes the radical homosexual agenda (ie 80% of the world) is automatically a closet turd burglar. Nice logic….lmaoooo
32.
Ronnie | July 25, 2011 at 10:40 pm
BWAAAAAAAAAA… wash, rinse, repeat… oops… red sock… everything is pink… OH NOES!!!!… (runs out of the house screaming)… AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!! ………. XP …Ronnie
33.
DaveP | July 25, 2011 at 10:41 pm
You fail, Tom.
You said that WE pushed for votes on marriage equality. Wrong. Issues of equal rights for minorities should NEVER be put up for majority vote. That's exactly what the Constitution and the Bill of Rights are for – to protect the individual and the minority from the tyranny of the majority. And that's one of the reasons why Prop 8 has been ruled unconstitutional.
Have you read the Prop 8 ruling? Please familiarize yourself with it and then feel free to come back here and tell us exactly where you think it is incorrect. We'll wait.
And don't try cherry picking statistics to support a leap of logic. It's a particularly boring way to tell a lie.
34.
Tom | July 25, 2011 at 10:43 pm
anyway if anyone wants to debate me (you will surely lose) heres my youtube: http://www.youtube.com/user/bachmann4president
i dont like being on fag blogs too much, yall give me the creeps
35.
Ronnie | July 25, 2011 at 10:48 pm
ROFLMGAO…. "homosexual agenda"…..Shake Weight……teeter, teeter…… XP …Ronnie
36.
DaveP | July 25, 2011 at 10:50 pm
Yeah, that darn 'radical agenda'. Tom, all of the married gay people I know have the same 'agendas' as everyone else. Building a home and family, maintaining careers, getting the kids off to school, some yard work on the weekends. And it's nice to not have to do all of that with an extra burden of being denied some legal rights that other people take for granted. What is it about this that you find so threatening? How does it hurt you?
37.
Ronnie | July 25, 2011 at 10:51 pm
Cigarette blogs are so passe….. MAUDE!!!!………. XP …Ronnie
38.
Tom | July 25, 2011 at 10:54 pm
I NEVER fail I provided facts and statistics, you merely replied with your interpretation of the law. The constitution was also founded to protect freedom of speech and democracy. Forcing your agenda through activist judges doesnt sound too democratic to me.
39.
Ronnie | July 25, 2011 at 10:57 pm
ROFLMGAO……"activist judge"….. Simon Cowell…..chortle, chortle, chortle, chortle… XP …Ronnie
40.
DaveP | July 25, 2011 at 11:01 pm
Yeah, you're quite the little debater, aren't you? So far you haven't even made an attempt to present any argument. Just a bunch of "ooh! icky gay people!" remarks. Feel free to come back when you can act like a grown up and discuss WHY you feel the way you do about marriage equality and HOW it actually affects you (or how it affects anyone else, besides the two people who are getting married).
41.
Tom | July 25, 2011 at 11:04 pm
Yeah right. Sodomites are more concerned with sodomy (and even trying to get infected with HIV. dont believe me? check this forum: http://www.breedingzone.com -its fucking sickkkkkkkkkk) and doing drugs. STD's in the fag community are rampant. 1 in 5 sodomites have HIV lol – thats another CDC fact. Ha
42.
DaveP | July 25, 2011 at 11:08 pm
Again, Tom – read the prop 8 ruling. THEN tell us what you think is incorrect about it.
And knock off the lame 'freedom of speech' stuff. You HAVE freedom of speech. And so do I. That has nothing to do with the issue of civil marriage equality. You were already warned about simply parroting NOM's meaningless talking points instead of presenting a legitimate argument. You just lost some more points for that.
43.
Ronnie | July 25, 2011 at 11:13 pm
Rumpelstiltskin!!!!!!!!!!…..I'm rich….wait?! …..gafaaaaaaaw…. XP …Ronnie
44.
DaveP | July 25, 2011 at 11:18 pm
Yeah, because you found some extreme web site it must apply to all people who want equal legal rights. Another of Tom's trademark logic leaps. Just in case you haven't heard, the internet is full of odd web sites about sexual stuff, and the vast majority of them are about STRAIGHT people who do peculiar things. And can you tell us exactly what this has to do with marriage equality?
45.
Ronnie | July 25, 2011 at 11:19 pm
The cigarette community has rampant STD's?……Oh I got it…Share That Drag….wait?! ………… XP …Ronnie
46.
loaferguy | July 25, 2011 at 11:20 pm
What kind of person still uses the word, "sodomite"?
47.
Tom | July 25, 2011 at 11:23 pm
why would we let sexual perverts marry? whats next – polygamy?
48.
DaveP | July 25, 2011 at 11:26 pm
I know, right? It's like trying to talk to the friggen' Church Lady from Saturday night Live.
49.
Ronnie | July 25, 2011 at 11:27 pm
Nope (on all accounts)….check please….If she thinks I'm leaving her a tip… AS IF!!!!!!…… 8 / …Ronnie
50.
DaveP | July 25, 2011 at 11:29 pm
Aw man, you were too easy. You have just lost your own argument. Thanks for playing. We have some lovely parting gifts for you.
51.
Tom | July 25, 2011 at 11:35 pm
The only thing you'll win is a one way ticket to Hell.
52.
Ronnie | July 25, 2011 at 11:42 pm
There's no such thing as "Hell"… well, actually… there is "Hell's Kitchen" the TV show… I've never watched it but I heard it's good… anywho, now I want a devil dog… NO, I can't ruin my diet… hurrumph!!!… : ( ….Ronnie
53.
Reformed | July 25, 2011 at 11:48 pm
Most of your side is trying to distance themselves from the proposed Uganda genocide at least with one side of their mouth. Yet you seem to be gloating. You adress this blog community as sodomites. How have we been inhospitable to you? Have we offered our virgin daughters to be raped by the townspeople like your Mr Lot.
54.
Lora | July 26, 2011 at 12:17 am
"Tom", what do you have to say about lesbians?…the lowest instance of HIV infection and the safest sex around! Any comment??? Yeah, I thought you wouldn't.
55.
Lora | July 26, 2011 at 12:19 am
"bachmann4president" was all I needed to see….
56.
Tom | July 26, 2011 at 12:26 am
Lesbians are just as bad.
Romans 1:26-27 – "Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion."
57.
JonT | July 26, 2011 at 12:43 am
Some douchebag still living in the 5th century I guess
58.
JonT | July 26, 2011 at 12:45 am
Come out of the closet Tommy Two-Tone. It really does get better…
59.
JonT | July 26, 2011 at 12:49 am
Heh, just your standard issue NOMbie closet case. Nothing to see here.
60.
Tom | July 26, 2011 at 12:58 am
Hey, just your standard sodomite response "you're a closet case" meanwhile avoiding the facts. Nothing to see here
61.
Ronnie | July 26, 2011 at 1:06 am
LOL…Prove it!!!…Oh & this has nothing to do with American law… The "Bible" is an opinion, a literary work that has been written & rewritten over & over again by several different people to fit their needs at the time thousands of years after the fact filled with fairytales, folklore, & mythology. There was NO established knowledge of "Romans" anything in the Western World until after the 15th century that is 1500 years after a man allegedly named "Jesus" was allegedly born & there is millions of years of historical evidence of humans existing prior to that with NO knowledge of "God", "Adam", "Eve" & every other character written in that literary work that has splintered into so many denominations & sects there is no keeping track of which way is up & which way is around…. Never the less, there is NO written law that says ALL American's have to adhere to what was written by some paranoid schizophrenics in your version of the "Bible". I don't pay taxes to "Romans". I don't pay taxes to your house of worship. I don't pay taxes to your version of "God". I pay taxes to the Federal & State Governments & BY LAW they cannot force me or anybody to adhere to anything & everything your "Bible" says including your "holy matrimony" definition or it is violation of my 1st & 14th amendment rights.
PERIOD…by-the-by… the preceding is all rhetorical… Good day sir, I said good day…… 8 / …Ronnie
62.
Tom | July 26, 2011 at 1:11 am
Oh look everyone, a sodomite who hates the bible! You're SO edgy!
63.
Ronnie | July 26, 2011 at 1:16 am
The alleged citizens of the alleged city "Sodom" did not, allegedly, speak english therefore no facts have been supplied… just conjecture & propagated hyperbole that is now used as a derogatory epithet that does not require any other "standard response" then what was allocated …..Nothing more to see here…. : ) …Ronnie
64.
Ronnie | July 26, 2011 at 1:32 am
1. I am not a "sodomite"…..nice try though.
2. I don't hate the 'Bible". I admire it as a literary work on the same level that I admire Tolkien, Austen, Bronte, Shakespeare, Poe & many other writers of great works of literary art. You don't speak for me & you know nothing about me, so don't ASSume to think you know anything about my spiritual, life, & world beliefs.
3. It is the title of a book, therefore you start it with a capital letter & put it in quotes or italics. You could at least show that much respect for the book you allegedly care so much about.
4. Take an etiquette class & learn what the phrase "the preceding is all rhetorical" means.
5. Typically when someone tells you to have a good day you respond with "& to you the same"….NOT with a derogatory epithet like some jejune & puerile little gamine.
Au revoir, OTIO…….. ; ) …Ronnie
65.
Erkhyan | July 26, 2011 at 1:47 am
You… don't like being on fag blogs, yet you keep coming here. Are you a masochist then? Ooooh, kinky!
66.
Erkhyan | July 26, 2011 at 1:49 am
Yeah, yeah, people have been saying the same about my black father marrying my white mother not so long ago. And before that, to my white grandfather marrying my asian grandmother.
And stop using the word sodomy, will you? You're doing disservice to a town in Ontario.
67.
Erkhyan | July 26, 2011 at 1:53 am
Your standard "U R A SODOMITE" response with name-calling instead of arguments and disregarding all facts when they don't fit a centuries-old book…
68.
Kalbo | July 26, 2011 at 3:46 am
Regarding people not understanding federal marriage rights: I got the same questions from family and friends when Hawaii (finally) passed civil unions: So now you can bring him (fiancé) over, right? Um, no … If only it were that easy. *sigh
So I explain DOMA, and I can't remember anyone (friends, family, co-workers) who was NOT surprised to learn that such restrictions against us exist in the United States of America. Getting the word out about the effects DOMA has on us is key to tipping this law into the dustbin once and for all. Most people have no idea, and somehow believe marriage or civil unions automatically bring with it equal rights (which logically, it should!).
69.
DazedWheels | July 26, 2011 at 4:47 am
Adam – Regarding the person posting as "Tom" in this thread, two requests: 1) Since the abusive, derogatory, and hateful language this person uses, repeatedly, violates the guidelines for the site, will you please drop the ban hammer? 2) Can you post the IP address(es) from which this troll posts, so it can be tracked back to its cave of origin? Remember the fun when Joe Jervis exposed a troll cave?
70.
Fluffyskunk | July 26, 2011 at 6:04 am
I just wanted to say your avatar is cute.
That is all. :3
71.
Erkhyan | July 26, 2011 at 6:17 am
Thanks! That's my own work, drawn about five years ago. The rest of my online gallery shouldn't be too hard to track down
And, since I didn't want to grace a direct reply to Tom with my usual signature:
– Franck P. Rabeson
Days spent apart from my fiancé because of DOMA: 1495 days, as of today.
72.
Gregory in SLC | July 26, 2011 at 6:17 am
newest episode of Marriage News Watch:
[youtube 43haRZXGfXQ&feature=player_embedded#at=45 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43haRZXGfXQ&feature=player_embedded#at=45 youtube]
73.
AnonyGrl | July 26, 2011 at 6:31 am
I am with you.
74.
Gregory in SLC | July 26, 2011 at 8:12 am
CNN Discusses How Even After DADT Repeal, Servicemembers Will Be Denied Equal Benefits Under DOMA: http://equalitymatters.org/emtv/201107220011
75.
Lora | July 26, 2011 at 8:15 am
In case you hadn't noticed…our country is not a theocracy, no matter how much you want it to be, so your quoting the bible really means nothing to a great number of people. For all you nutjobs that are worried about sharia law becoming the law of the land…what do you think you're trying to do by making the bible into law??
76.
Adam Bink | July 26, 2011 at 8:38 am
Dave, please don't use insults.
77.
Adam Bink | July 26, 2011 at 8:38 am
See the bottom for response to these comments.
78.
Adam Bink | July 26, 2011 at 8:41 am
Comment ratings, along with the report button, serve as community feedback for whether your comments are appropriate, as well as how many people agree or disagree. If your comment ratings are consistently low, as in this thread with Tom, you have a problem. Due to hurling insults "sickness" "fag" "sodomites" "perverts" "going to hell", Tom is now banned. There is no problem with disagreeing with opinions expressed on this site, but coming into the comments to throw around nasty insults is unacceptable.
For our side, the same goes. At least one person on this thread called Tom a bigot. Please use facts rather than name-calling. Thanks all.
79.
Mackenzie | July 26, 2011 at 9:10 am
Tom the bible passage you speak of is Paul commenting on Romans worshiping false idols by having giant sex orgies with one another and cutting off their genitals. I do not worship a false god so your passage is really irrelevant to anything. Also if you want to be technical we have not actively tried to bring marriage equality 33 times. It has been very few that we promoted. It was your sides prerogative to kick us out in most these instances, like in my state of Missouri. Also using stats from 2006 is a bit outdated. I would also lol to point out that straight are grossly under-represented because they hardly ever get tested where as gays do so at much higher levels. And the cdc can only guess he number of gay people….we have no gay sign in book somewhere. As with lora, the name of your YouTube channel is enough for me. That lady is a nut case.
80.
Alan_Eckert | July 26, 2011 at 9:29 am
I just watched the "best of Dana Carvey" this weekend, and they have a Church Lady Montage. Love it!
81. Prop 8 Trial Tracker &raq&hellip | July 26, 2011 at 9:41 am
[...] full 25-page brief can be found here. Kudos to Schneiderman for capitalizing on, as I’ve written, an important window of opportunity to raise awareness that while same-sex couples can be married [...]
82.
Adam Bink | July 26, 2011 at 9:44 am
1) See below. Yes. 2) No, I will not post anyone's IP address.
83.
karen in kalifornia | July 26, 2011 at 11:12 am
The uninformed ignorance of straight and/or supportive allies is immeasurable….in a bad way.
Your's is a perfect example. I'm so tired of trying to inform people who are unmotivated to learn of the extent to which ss couples are put at a disadvantage. Unmotivated because of their heteronormative entitlement.
84.
Alan_Eckert | July 26, 2011 at 11:59 am
Everyone needs to hit this AFA poll today, and fast! They even have basic Yes, No, and Not Sure responses, which is rare for them. Usually the possible responses are biased in themselves.
"Should New Yorkers be given the chance to vote on the definition of marriage?" http://www.onenewsnow.com/Poll.aspx?ekfrm=1399014
[Then, when you are done, go vote in the Pepsi challenge]
85.
AnonyGrl | July 26, 2011 at 12:00 pm
I would call Tom a bigot. It is not name calling, it is fact. Mirriam Webster defines bigot as "a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance ' I would suggest that were we to be using derogatory terms like Tom was, then you would have call to dun us on this, but bigot is an apt description.
Tom could have come in and discussed us as homosexuals, bisexuals, transgendered, marriage equality supporters, and even bigots (if he wanted to try to argue that point, as others unsuccessfully have) and have been using accurate descriptors for which we would have no cause to ask to have him removed. Looking back I do see a couple of our comments (VERY few, though) that might be over the line, (but only by centimeters). Bigot is not, in my opinion, one of them.
86.
fiona64 | July 26, 2011 at 12:42 pm
Oh, Tom. Are you really so foolish? According to the CDC, the largest (and growing) population of HIV patients are heterosexual women of color. http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/topics/women/
Are you out complaining about them? No? Please stop lying and making up statistics.
BTW, the people pushing for votes on the civil rights of my GLBT friends are people like YOU — who don't seem to understand that a democratic republic is set up to protect the rights of the minority from a tyrannical majority. Perhaps a refresher course in middle school civics would help you.
Before you ask, I'm a straight, married, church-going woman who thinks that Jesus wouldn't recognize his teachings in your mouth.
87.
fiona64 | July 26, 2011 at 12:43 pm
Tom, sweetie … you might want to look at the 2010 statistic I posted just a minute ago. Things have changed some since 2006. And where's your source for what the "population opposes" in Uganda? Don't tell me, let me guess — the same place as your other sources. Made up.
88.
fiona64 | July 26, 2011 at 12:44 pm
ROFLMAO. You haven't provided diddly-squat.
89.
fiona64 | July 26, 2011 at 12:45 pm
PS to Tom: Freedom of speech means that the government doesn't haul you off for speaking your mind. It does NOT mean that you get a guaranteed and/or approving audience.
And we don't live in a democracy; we live in a constitutional republic. Did you study civics at *all*?
90.
fiona64 | July 26, 2011 at 12:46 pm
As soon as you provide any facts, Tom, I'll be happy to discuss them. We have, OTOH, rebutted every piece of bigoted, propagandistic crap you've put up — using actual facts and statistics.
Bless your heart.
91.
fiona64 | July 26, 2011 at 12:48 pm
You know what I want to know, Dave? Why people like Tom are so obsessed with man-on-man anal intercourse.
I wonder if Tom knows about the University of Georgia study that proved the biggest, most loudmouthed homophobes are actually gay? http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_fuel2.htm
92.
fiona64 | July 26, 2011 at 12:51 pm
I'm with anonygirl. Referring to Tom as a bigot was/is a statement of fact, as proved by his own behaior.
93.
AnonyGrl | July 26, 2011 at 1:08 pm
Part 1
OK… OT here… but interesting.
I was following some links, and ended up on Exodus' page. You may remember they are the group infamous for "curing gays". http://exodusinternational.org/2011/03/debunking-…
In their explanation of themselves and why their iPhone app should not have been pulled, I came across THIS tidbit. I think we should ALL bookmark it to refer anyone who says "homosexuality is a choice…"
"As complex human beings, sexual attractions develop for many known and unknown reasons and no one chooses those…"
Done and done.
94.
AnonyGrl | July 26, 2011 at 1:09 pm
Part 2
They go on to explain that you can learn to completely repress your feelings and natural attractions and live a life devoid of love (well, ok… they put it in much prettier, more suportive ways, but it means the same thing) and I am sure that their methods still resemble the "pray away the gay" we have all come to abhor and loathe, but I think handing back the phrase "As complex human beings, sexual attractions develop for many known and unknown reasons and no one chooses those…" whenever we hear about choice is a fine thing. I plan to quote them frequently from now on.
95.
DazedWheels | July 26, 2011 at 3:07 pm
Thanks, as always, Adam. I appreciate 1, and understand 2 completely.
I didn't really expect 2, more wanting to point out to ^T that it's possible.
96.
DaveP | July 26, 2011 at 3:18 pm
Hi Adam,
i'm more than willing to follow the rules and I wouldn't want to cause any problems here. But, not to be difficult – I'm at a loss for what word or phrase we SHOULD use. I mean, when the point of my post is to call attention to the fact that the person is exhibiting irrational hatred and animosity toward gay people, isn't that the factually correct word for it?
I can simply avoid posting any comments that point out this behavior when we see it here, but that doesn't seem like the right answer. If you can suggest a better way to say the same thing that P8TT doesn't consider an inappropriate insult I'll go along with it.
97.
Chris in Lathrop | July 26, 2011 at 4:33 pm
I think Landover Baptist uses it!
LOL
98.
loaferguy | July 26, 2011 at 9:04 pm
Oh wait, I think I just found the answer to my question…it's THIS kind of person:
[youtube uCxUT-bsJYk http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uCxUT-bsJYk youtube]
99.
Munk | July 26, 2011 at 9:19 pm
On 1 and especially 2, this is the appropriate response. Thank you, Adam.
100.
deppy | July 27, 2011 at 12:14 am
The same type of person that rides around in a horse-drawn carriage.
101.
Str8Grandmother | July 27, 2011 at 1:02 am
AnonyGrl, Interesting comment to Exodus. Interesting fact, Regent University which is the alma mater of Miclelle Bachman's husband, the University founded by Evangelist Pat Robertson has a professor of Psychology, named Mark Yarhouse. Yarhouse published at http://christianpsych.org/wp_scp/wp-content/uploa…
The Yarhouse study shows that the sexual minorities living in a heterosexual marriage contra their natural sexual orientation, in fact never loose their same sex attractions, if anything their same sex attractions increase slightly. I reformatted some the data to make it a little easier to understand. What jumped out at me in the study was how damaging these marriages are to the heterosexual spouses.
page 41,
"The research suggests, however, that many mixed orientation relationships do not survive. It has been estimated that only about a third of couples even attempt to stay together after disclosure (Buxton, 2004). Of that third that attempt to stay together, only about half remain intact for three or more years (Bux- ton)."
And this page 49
"Frequency of Intercourse Heterosexual Spouses 155
Never had sexual intercourse with their partner (n=69; 44.5%)
Less than once a month (n=25; 16.1%)
About one time a month (n=23; 14.8%)
Total = 74.4%
Greater than 4 times a week (n=8; 5.2%).
1-3 times a week (n=30; 19.4%)"
Total = 24.6%
This is getting pretty long and i don't want to hog up to much space but really humorous is when asked how satisfied they were with their sex life (see statistics above) on a happiness scale of 1 being Terrible and 9 being Great
the sexual minority scored 6.02! I guess that indicates that they are VERY HAPPY not doing the horizontal bop with their opposite sex spouse.
I guess while they were not doing it with their spouse they were getting it from somewhere, because the sexual minorities said that 44.2% had cheated on their spouse and had an average of 3.14 same sex liaisons. (which usually start around year 7). Not only that but this is only 85% of the respondents. 15% are in an "open" marriage so there is even more extra marital sex going on than the 44.2%
Need for Same-sex fantasy. The group of sexual minority respondents was Approximately 102 sexual minorities responded.
Initial stages of love- making,
54 (52.9%) No
30 (29.4%) A little necessary
18 (17.6%) Absolutely necessary
Total = 47%
Same Sex Fantasies further along during intercourse
102 sexual minorities responded
25 (24.5%) Never
32 (31.4%) Frequently
20 (19.6%) Occasionally
25 (24.5%) Yes, but not often
Total = 75.5%
Sexual Fantasies during intercourse, does the spouse know?
93 sexual minorities responded
60 (64.5%) No
33 (35.5%) Yes
Future Potential of Marital Relationship
Heterosexual Spouses 113 individuals responded
Positive about their relation-ship’s future (n=29; 25.7%).
Extremely Positive (n=23; 20.4%)
Total = 46.1%
Neither positive or negative (n=23; 20.4%)
Extremely negative (n=22; 19.5)
Negative (n=16; 14.2%)
Total = 54.1%
I read neither positive or negative as a "Lukewarm" I don't think "Lukewarm" can be described as a Happy Marriage.
102.
_BK_ | July 27, 2011 at 2:51 am
Your situation is very similar to mine. They refuse to even review some of my comments, then occasionally they say that the post is waiting to be reviewed by a moderator. Then, out of the blue, a random comment gets by without having to be looked at by the moderators. I don't understand it. And unfortunately, I've stooped to posting with alternate emails, just to get my comments out there. Oh well.
How about this: multiple people from P8TT go over to NOM's website each time a new article arrives, and we post a link to this website, inviting them over to have a discussion on our page. We already attempt conversations with them on their website, and on ours, only vile comments are deleted. Maybe then we could actually hold a debate.
103.
Adam Bink | July 27, 2011 at 6:59 am
It's fact in your opinion. In others' opinion, calling someone who is gay a "potential spreader of AIDS", "sodomite", or whatever other term is probably fact. The problem remains that calling someone anything isn't positive community dialogue, whether you believe someone is or not. Use persuasive arguments.
104.
Adam Bink | July 27, 2011 at 7:04 am
Dave,
Consider not bothering to use ANY word. If you feel it's necessary to counter arguments of someone who is clearly of NOM's persuasion, use persuasive arguments. Use facts. Better yet, perhaps it is wise to not feed the trolls at all. Folks often forget that no one is required to respond to hateful arguments. Everyone makes a choice to, and it's always tempting to mix it up. I've read and commented on blogs since 2004, and 9 times out of 10, when that happens, it ends up with reprimands, name-calling and banning. Sometimes it's wiser to tell someone you disagree, present an argument why, and disengage. If you absolutely feel you must hash it out with someone who is clearly diametrically opposed, please stick to arguments and not deeming someone a bigot or any other name. If you find you're out of arguments or someone isn't listening, it might be wiser to simply disengage.
Thanks for asking.
105.
AnonyGrl | July 27, 2011 at 8:30 am
How is using a word that means "a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance" when he is calling us sick sodomites NOT a persuasive argument? Are you objecting to me saying he is a bigot because I didn't quote back what it was he said in posts not 6 inches above my own and not providing a dictionary definition?
Adam, Tom is a bigot. I don't need to define it. He came in to what I think of as our house, INSULTED US TO OUR FACES with language that you would not tolerate from a passing strangers in the street, and we said "Don't do that." He IS a bigot. I defy you to prove OTHERWISE. And now you are suggesting that, instead of using the perfectly good word that the English language provides to describe such a person, I should say "You are a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance because you called us sick, evil diseased sodomites."?
No. Just no, Adam. I understand putting fires out. You KNOW I support you, and that I have, on occasion, talked with you privately when I disagree with you on a point of order, but I am afraid this is ridiculous.
What you have just told me is, in effect, "If someone comes in here and shouts epithets, suck it up, make nice, and don't use any words at all that might offend THEM."
I am, most often, the voice of reason here. I try to diffuse tension, when I can. I have been accused of being too politically correct myself on occasion, but I will not take "go back into the closet" from you. Because that is what you are asking me to do.
106.
Sheryl_Carver | July 27, 2011 at 9:38 am
Please don't lump those of us who love horses & sometimes ride in horse-drawn carriages with those who need professional mental help, like "Tom."
107.
_BK_ | July 27, 2011 at 11:56 am
""Ooooh, kinky!"
ROFL! You made me cry!
108.
_BK_ | July 27, 2011 at 12:07 pm
Tom's next post:
"See! Those
homosexualssodomites will take this country down the road to human-on-animal marriages!!! Especially that Fluffyskunk, who hinted–dare I say, admitted?–their attraction to an animal! A drawing of an animal, nonetheless! What's next—marriage between people and cartoons, like Erkhyan's avatar??? I told you! It's a slippery slope!!!" *exploding head*Sorry Fluffy, couldn't help it.
Oh, and I don't mean to bring human-animal relations into the spotlight here. That discussion can be held later.
109.
_BK_ | July 27, 2011 at 8:40 pm
"Tom" has posted some hurtful things, and label me a masochist if you'd like. But whenever I find a troll lurking in the comments, I can't help but feel some strange satisfaction. Perhaps it is the -18 ratings, or the idiocy of most troll comments. Perhaps it is the often brilliant–and decimating–responses to those trolls. Most likely it is all of those things and more that awe (and amuse) me. Keep up the good fight, O ye mighty Troll slayers!
110.
Tim is Sonoma | July 30, 2011 at 5:58 pm
Personaly I'm proud of how Dave and other posters responded to the poor soul named "Tom" in this thread. Its is clear that he obsessed with man on man sex and knows nothing about the people he refers to as sodomites. As if there are nothing more to people than the sex they have. *rolling eyes and walking away*
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