1 Comment Sagesse
Three notes about last night’s Congressional special election
May 25, 2011
By Adam Bink
I actually had a personal interest in last night’s special Congressional election race, as my sister and her family live there, and it’s the district about 15 minutes from where I grew up (suburban Buffalo). It was a fascinating race with lots of twists and turns, and I thought Hochul (who won 47-43% with 97% reporting) from the beginning was the prototype “good government Democrat” who could win in this fairly Republican district. Medicare aside, it was her reputation as a person working hard from consumers (her main claims to fame as Erie County Clerk were making it less horrible to visit the DMV and go through the mortgage process) that I really believe helped bring this home, along with people like Sen. Gillibrand and the Working Families Party going all out to bring this seat into the Democratic column.
Under the radar in last night’s special Congressional election was that we added another supporter of civil marriage equality and serving openly in the military to the ranks of Congress. Here’s Kathy Hochul:
Q: What is your position on marriage? Should the federal government involve itself on issues of who can marry whom? Should the federal government provide the same benefits to heterosexual couples as well as gay couples? Finally, should gay men and lesbians be allowed to serve openly in the U.S. military?
A: I don’t think the federal government should involve itself on issues of who can marry whom, that needs to be determined by the states. I believe everyone should be afforded equal rights under federal law. I do support the civil institution of marriage for gay couples, with absolutely no requirements placed on religious institutions. Gay men and women, who want to fight to defend our freedom, should be allowed to serve openly in the U.S. military.
Hochul hasn’t been specific on this point, but hopefully she will also co-sponsor the “Respect for Marriage Act”, which will repeal DOMA.
At the same time, Jeremy notes how NOM blew $6,000 on robocalls around the marriage issue in favor of Corwin.
The last night item of note is to share an anecdote — while my sister took my three-year old niece to vote yesterday, she asked what they were doing there. My sister replied they were there to vote who would be “in charge” of Lockport (the town in which they were voting… it’s hard to explain Congress to a 3-year-old!). She asked “which man?” and my sister is like, “no, two women!” Which makes me smile. We have to start our kids early on learning that women can do it just as well as men!
Filed under: Marriage equality
36 Comments Leave a Comment
1.
Ann S. | May 25, 2011 at 2:14 am
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(I actually kind of miss seeing everyone sign in.)
2.
Kate | May 25, 2011 at 2:23 am
I miss everyone. I'm starting to think of P8TT in the past tense.
3.
Mark Mead-Brewer | May 25, 2011 at 2:50 am
I agree….I come here and read what there is to read, but the tone, flow, and overall feeling is just not the same. I grieve for the old P8TT
4.
Straight Ally #3008 | May 25, 2011 at 2:53 am
$6,000 on anti-equality robocalls. I would love to donate that much to…let's see, cancer research, AIDS research, support for the homeless, aid to the tornado victims in Missouri, Doctors without Borders, military families funds, on and on and on….
5.
DaveP | May 25, 2011 at 3:07 am
On topic – I'm glad to see another pro-equality politician get elected.
Off topic – I too am concerned about how the changes here have affected participation. Partly because of the way posts flow but mostly because some of our wonderful regulars have been posting less often or not at all. I'm really getting worried and I sure hope this turns around. My biggest concern is that once folks leave they may be gone for good. Let's not let that happen!
6.
Reformed Conservativ | May 25, 2011 at 3:10 am
Not sure about things surrounding signing in, but I like the ability to reply to specific comments in a tree sort of format. Am I missing something by not signing in? If not, this chronological format stifles mutliple conversations. Tangents are good!
7.
jpmassar | May 25, 2011 at 3:17 am
Not having threaded comments seems to have really impacted this site.
8.
Kate | May 25, 2011 at 3:20 am
I'm curious about all those alleged people who "voted" in favor of no reply threads. They certainly haven't been posting here to say how much they prefer the new restrictive format!
9.
Michelle Evans | May 25, 2011 at 3:27 am
I absolutely agree that there have been some major problems with regard to the setup of the new site. I used to chime in nearly every day, but hardly ever get a chance to do that anymore.
The system simply doesn't work to provide me with email updates, so I have to go out of my way to find out if anything is happening over here.
What has happened here, to me, is the perfect example of, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."
We had a thriving community with lots of great feedback. That has completely disappeared. I was one of the many people who also contributed financially. It wasn't much, but I know that every little bit helps. I have to wonder what would happen with a new fundraising effort such as we just completed. The financial goals were met at that time, but I have a feeling that today, that would no longer be the case.
Adam has stated that going back to the old type of system is not an option, yet there were people here that said they knew how to do it and were willing to help. Bottom line is that if we lose our wonderful P8TT community (which it very much appears is the case), then what purpose does this serve?
Courage supplied something that was needed and wanted, but now that is truly backfiring, and I would ask for them to seriously consider whatever solution there may be to regain what we lost.
All the new bells and whistles that this upgrade supposedly supplied mean absolutely nothing if no one is here to take advantage of them. We need a simple, easy-to-use site to get information and regain our community.
10.
Adam Bink | May 25, 2011 at 3:30 am
Threaded comments are not possible with the new system.
11.
David Henderson | May 25, 2011 at 3:33 am
I hadn't voted, but as someone who doesn't post often and mostly just reads, I've found an advantage of the chronological format to be that I always know where the new posts are. I can see that there were 38 comments on a post when I originally loaded the page, hit reload to get new posts, and start reading at post 39.
I'd also prefer the option of viewing one way or the other, so the first time I load a page I could read them threaded, then after that I could switch to the other view for just the new posts. So I'd like to have both options available.
12.
Kate | May 25, 2011 at 3:33 am
Beautifully written, Michelle. Everyone here has been MORE than gracious when posting and asking to have threaded replies return, as JonT clearly explained could be done a few topics back. It has become abundantly clear that this change is a one-vote autocratic decision, likely made in order to more easily control the OT discussions and keep a tight grip on our personal interactions. Being "in charge" of a blog is a slippery position. Too much desire for absolute control, and you soon have no readers. That point has been reached.
13.
Mark Mead-Brewer | May 25, 2011 at 3:44 am
So threaded comments aren't possible with the new system…than abandon the new system and go back to what was working just fine.
What's the big deal?
14.
Sheryl Carver | May 25, 2011 at 3:47 am
Re: "new format" & loss of threaded comments
These comments were posted on what was even then an older post, so many of you may not have seen them:
http://www.prop8trialtracker.com/2011/05/16/repub…
I've copied Adam's comment & JonT's so you don't have to switch, but you can if you want. As far as I've been able to tell, there has been no response to JonT's finding that WordPress DOES support threaded comments.
45. Adam Bink | May 18, 2011 at 1:54 pm
Folks, thanks for feedback (I am up and about and heavily medicated but prepared to read another round of criticisms once more)
First, we poll in more ways than just in the comments re preferences for the blog, and yes, there were people who expressed systems similar to that used at Firedoglake, although their system has a replied-to function. Many people hate having to hunt for new posts in a thread because they were buried in back-and-forth arguments. But if you didn’t see more people express prefs for one vs the other, it’s not necessarily because its public. Comments are not an accurate sum total measure of how we poll ppl.
Two, the old system isn’t an option, which is why this will need to be put to bed. The new platform to which we migrated does not have threaded comments as an option. It simply does not.
Three, while the best parts of the site for some of you may be the back and forth in the comments, keep in mind it isn’t for others. Many wrote to say they come here for the blog posts and that’s it, and like the ability to embed videos we couldn’t before. They don’t read or use the comments. Others like the ability to scroll between posts chronologically with one click. Others come here for the news many of you post in the comments, which you can still post. Still others appreciate the ability to subscribe to posts without having to leave dummy comments. We have to take all of that on balance. And, as I wrote before, a lot of the features are yet to come simply because we haven’t had a need to use them or they’ve being installed.
So as much as threaded comments are great, we have to move on without them.
02Rate this
46. JonT | May 18, 2011 at 3:53 pm
@45. Adam Bink
Comments are not an accurate sum total measure of how we poll ppl.
It is all *we* are privy to, however, so that’s what we have to go on… Care to share your polling data?
The new platform to which we migrated does not have threaded comments as an option. It simply does not.
Adam, you are running WordPress 3.1.2. The ability to thread comments was added in version 2.7. It *is* possible, as long as your template (and your developer, Miles) care to do it. Aside from the comment ordering issue, this looks like the same template…
A google on ‘wordpress threaded comments’ yields quite a treasure trove of code, plugins and other information on how to do it.
It’s ok for you to say ‘I didn’t like it, so we are not going to do it anymore.’
Three, while the best parts of the site for some of you may be the back and forth in the comments, keep in mind it isn’t for others.
Fair enough. It is what prompted me to participate more fully. Without it, I, and I’m guessing many others, will no longer do much of that anymore. Just so you know.
There isn’t really any news you provide here, generally speaking, that cannot be obtained elsewhere. Aside from the Prop8 live blogging that is. It was the conversations with the other commenters here that kept me coming back for more..
Trying to do that in the current scheme is just too clumsy to spend as much time on it.
‘Many wrote to say they come here for the blog posts and that’s it, and like the ability to embed videos we couldn’t before. They don’t read or use the comments.
… In which case the choice of commenting mechanics is irrelevant, no?
‘So as much as threaded comments are great, we have to move on without them. ‘
As long as you understand, some of us will move on…
I’m sorry Adam, I really do appreciate the work you’ve done here, and I don’t want to sound like a asshole, but your post came across to me as a big FU…
15.
Gregory in Salt Lake | May 25, 2011 at 4:04 am
Echoing Kate…Michelle articulated my feelings wonderfully…tx Dear M.! great to hear from you! Thumbs up to JonT saying it like it is!
Agree with Michelle @
"Bottom line is that if we lose our wonderful P8TT community (which it very much appears is the case), then what purpose does this serve?"
16.
Sheryl, Mormon Mothe | May 25, 2011 at 4:45 am
I, too, miss the back and forth discussions that the reply-to option provided. This format feels less like a community.
It is good to know what is going on around the country (and world) in regard to LGBT issues. And, I understand that if all that was reported was Prop 8 news, there would be many, many, days (weeks) without nothing to write about.
We have June 13 quickly approaching and am wondering who is planning on being there.
17.
be4marriage | May 25, 2011 at 4:58 am
Um, it's a wordpress site. There are hundreds of plug-ins for wordpress that allow threaded comments.
18.
jpmassar | May 25, 2011 at 5:15 am
@be4marriage
Perhaps it would be helpful if someone who knows what they're doing could recommend a particular plug in and provide explicit instructions for installing it. Maybe Adam could then test it out.
19.
Kate | May 25, 2011 at 5:25 am
A quick Google brought up pages of info. This is just the first listing:
http://wordpress.org/extend/plugins/wordpress-thr…
20.
Gregory in Salt Lake | May 25, 2011 at 5:32 am
maybe the word "system" is not referring to technical capability. Maybe "process" or "preference"?
@
Threaded comments are not possible with the new system.
21.
be4marriage | May 25, 2011 at 5:56 am
I used the intense debate plug-in on my site took abot 5 minutes to set-up. intensedebate.com
22.
Michael Adrian (SF) | May 25, 2011 at 6:10 am
Congratulations, Kathy Hochul.
Continuing the discussion on commenting, if threaded comments can't be done, which I accept (actually it annoyed me that when people responded to an older comment, the numbers below all shifted making things hard to find), maybe a quoting function would work, so you could see the post being responded to in the response. That's how it works on Fark, and it seems good. Or we could all just agree to paste in the relevant parts of previous comments.
I'm actually surprised at the strong resistance to what I thought were minor changes. Oh well. I still enjoy lurking in here.
23.
Phillip R | May 25, 2011 at 6:19 am
I much prefer the old format with threaded comments personally. It's harder to make any sense over comments now with topics being spread all over.
24.
Michelle Evans | May 25, 2011 at 7:25 am
I appreciate all the great people here, and wish I had a better connection like we used to. For some reason I am completely unable to even receive email updates about new subjects from the P8TT, which has never been the case since I first signed up.
The fact that there appear to be many problems with the new way of doing things, that readership and responses are waaaay down, and that there is so much dissatisfaction with how this now works, would lead me to hope that Adam and Courage will take a hard look at how it is going and maybe come up with some solutions to bring our group back to the happy status we enjoyed not that long ago.
With the advances in computer and web technology, it seems unbelievable that on this supposed "new and improved" site, that we actually have less abilities than we had previously. Just doesn't make sense to me.
It sounds like there are plenty of people out there willing to help with the tech side of things, so I would hope Adam, et al, would accept that help to make it all happen. Losing what we had here is akin to losing a member of the family, as I have long considered so many of you here in that way.
25.
jpmassar | May 25, 2011 at 7:27 am
It seems such a trivial thing for a blogging system to have a couple of buttons
a) show comments by time
b) show comments by thread
and when using the time display each comment could have a link to the parent.
I'm really surprised that this isn't just SOP for all blogging software systems that are sold or freeware by now.
26.
Michelle Evans | May 25, 2011 at 7:36 am
Pretty much any site you go to nowadays that allows comments, has a simple feature where you can reply to individual posts. Often it is set up so that those replies can either be hidden or displayed, and it does not affect other posts and their numbering to reply to an individual post.
27.
Kate | May 25, 2011 at 8:04 am
It's quite plain that Adam is simply not willing to do this the way the readership wants but only the way HE wants.
28.
Mark Mead-Brewer | May 25, 2011 at 8:35 am
Sure does seem that way Kate.
The whole tone of the site has changed along with this new attitude.
I now get most of my news from other sites.
The P8TT family seems to be no more
29.
Sheryl Carver | May 25, 2011 at 9:15 am
I just sent a brief email to Rick, pointing him to the comments on this post. We'll see if he cares more about the loss of the P8TT cimmunity than Adam appears to.
30.
Sheryl Carver | May 25, 2011 at 9:54 am
Got a very prompt reply from Rick assuring me he will look into this & get back to me. Depending on what happens, maybe our community will not disappear after all.
Keeping fingers & toes crossed.
31.
Michelle Evans | May 25, 2011 at 10:05 am
Wonderful news! Thanks Sheryl. Adding more fingers and toes crossed from both Cherie and I.
32.
Kate | May 25, 2011 at 10:27 am
All digits crossed here, too!
33.
Adam Bink | May 25, 2011 at 10:29 am
I have taken a hard look at this from day one. I care too. I prefer threaded comments too. If it can be done, I would like that. Our designer and several other tech colleagues have told me it is not under the version of WP we switched to. If you all have unexplored ideas, feel free to drop me a line. We can all put our heads together and figure it out.
34.
be4marriage | May 25, 2011 at 11:33 am
WordPress does not natively include comment threading. It has nothing to do with the version of wordpress that you are running, it's just not included as a standard feature.
BUT… The awesome and amazing thing about wordpress is that there are plugins to do just about anything that you would ever want to do. You need to install the right plugin to enable comment threading. As I said before, there are literally hundreds of plugins to allow comment threading, This isn't rocket science.
35.
Adam Bink | May 25, 2011 at 1:43 pm
Again, not that we've found, anyway. We're not stupid. We've added plugins for everything from subscribing to new posts to Twitter auto-feed. But not this. Drop me a line if you want to help find the right one that may be overlooked.
36.
be4marriage | May 26, 2011 at 6:34 am
I mentioned on the previous post that you can use the intense debate plug-in. What's wrong with that one?
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