Moving beyond #Prop8: On the two-year anniversary of its passage, the journey continues

November 4, 2010

by Andy Kelley
New Media Organizer, Courage Campaign

I will never forget where I was the moment I found out that I could get married — and the moment on November 4, 2008, when that right was taken away. Though much has changed in the past two years, and much progress has been made, our eyes once again turn to the court, as they did two years ago today. If you would like to share your recollection of where you were on that day, or at any moment thereafter, please add your personal story below, as we move forward together. -Andy

I will never forget where I was the moment I found out that I could get married.

I can still feel the coldness of the concrete upon which I was sitting, when my friend delivered the news. I can still feel the joy, the unexpected elation, and the startling sense of freedom unleashed by the sudden and unexpected news.

Equally, I will never forget where I was, 2 years ago today, when I learned that Proposition 8 had passed, taking that freedom away.

The following night, feeling powerless and alone, I attended a candlelight vigil on the steps of City Hall in San Francisco, after which I jotted down my experience of that evening, after the speeches had ended:

Over the murmur of the crowd, someone began singing “we shall not be moved”, at first a single voice, then another, and then a group. As flame passed from candle to candle, from stranger to neighbor, someone raised their candle above their head, others joined in, and 2,000 tiny lights lifted up for a common purpose. In that moment, I found my voice again, within the community; we all found our voices once more.

Maybe you remember, as I do, where you were standing, who you were with, and what you were thinking 2 years ago. It forever changed the way I viewed the world, I remember thinking:

I never thought I would live through a moment, best remembered as a counterpoint to the history of moving forward. It’s convenient to remember the victories of the past, easy to remember when times became better, when civil rights were expanded, when equality and mutual respect ruled the day. But that isn’t the whole story of our history as a people. The great victories of the past generations, expanding the right to vote, opening the doors of public education to all our children, ensuring a women’s right to choose, outlawing discrimination based on gender and race in housing, and hiring, are great American moments. Yet to remember these moments alone, in isolation, is to forget the struggles that came before, to forget a time of fewer rights, to omit a recollection of segregation and vote suppression, and is to deny a painful American legacy of our separate and unequal past. For every few steps forward, a giant step backwards. For every Roe, a Wade. For every Harvey Milk, a William Knight.

I remember writing those words, sitting upstairs in the corner of my room, hoping with each stroke of the pen, in the truth of the notion at the core: That we would continue to struggle together in our path forwards towards true equality. That the events of the preceding night would be remembered not as the night that Californians lost marriage, but as the night our eyes would turn to the court for protection.

Much has happened since then, the various cases, and plaintiffs, the arguments and legislative battles. From setbacks in Maine and New York, to victories in Massachusetts, Connecticut, Iowa, Vermont, and New Hampshire.

Today, 5 states, and the District of Columbia now allow the freedom to marry, and support for equality is growing every day. And with Judge Walker’s historic decision, our pathway to full federal equality is underway. Our friends over at the American Foundation for Equal Rights released a wonderful new video today, chronicling all that has happened so far, from the Supreme Court’s initial ruling, to the passage of Prop 8 and beyond:

[vimeo http://vimeo.com/15224050 w=500&h=400]

If you would like to share your recollection of where you were on that day, or at any moment thereafter, please add your personal story in the comments.

Filed under: Prop 8 trial

112 Comments Leave a Comment

  • 1. JonT  |  November 4, 2010 at 11:04 am

    ☮

  • 2. Rhie  |  November 4, 2010 at 11:07 am

    WAtching

  • 3. Ann S.  |  November 4, 2010 at 11:07 am

    In November of 2008 I worked outside a nearby polling place in the evening until it closed.

    I came home feeling rather chilly (I know, it's California, but it was cold for me) and turned on the TV to watch the returns. They had already declared Obama to be the winner of the Presidential election, and I was elated.

    But Prop 8 was winning. I couldn't believe it!

    The later it got, the closer it got. I half believed that if I stayed up late enough watching the returns that eventually the numbers would turn in our favor.

    Alas, it was not to be. I still have all my signs, though, and often put them in the window (mostly to block the sun — my neighbors and postman and UPS man all know how I feel already).

    Such a day of mixed emotions.

  • 4. Kathleen  |  November 4, 2010 at 11:11 am

    ☮

  • 5. Ronnie  |  November 4, 2010 at 11:11 am

    =

    <3…Ronnie

  • 6. Lesbians Love Boies  |  November 4, 2010 at 11:14 am

    ╚╣╠╝

  • 7. sven  |  November 4, 2010 at 11:20 am

    Guys see this. Looks like they don't care who gets rights taken away as long as it hurts the gays, oh but make sure not to use the word gay. That way it doesn't look like discrimination.

    By a margin of 55 percent to 45 percent, voters passed an initiative saying, "The city of El Paso endorses traditional family values by making health benefits available only to city employees and their legal spouse and dependent children."

    In response, the city attorney's office released a statement Wednesday saying there could be legal challenges, but the city will eliminate health coverage of:
    Gay and unmarried partners of city employees.
    Children such as foster kids who are not dependents under the federal tax code.
    Grandchildren of city employees.
    Retirees who are eligible for health coverage through another employer.

  • 8. Lesbians Love Boies  |  November 4, 2010 at 11:23 am

    Moving, touching story

    My son is gay…Or he’s not. I don’t care. He is still my son. And he is 5. And I am his mother. And if you have a problem with anything mentioned above, I don’t want to know you.
    http://nerdyapplebottom.com/2010/11/02/my-son-is-…

  • 9. Gregory in Salt Lake  |  November 4, 2010 at 11:30 am

    Thank you for your story Ann : ) I like reading about the signs still in your window….

    I keep typing, erasing, type,erase… crying now. *giant sigh* I don't have the heart to describe emotions of that day. I want so bad for the world to right itself and the biotry, common NOMsense and discrimination to disappear…

  • 10. Sagesse  |  November 4, 2010 at 11:39 am

    Observing the election from Canada, bemused that Prop 8 could pass in 2008. Only in California, with its wonky initiative regime.

    I started following the case closely because I really wanted to see how the courts would deal with it.

  • 11. Ronnie  |  November 4, 2010 at 11:41 am

    This thread is what I am talking about….the NOMrades bitch & moan about "I want to vote" blah blah blah blah…..but FAIL to realize that they are playing a game with people's lives….they are playing a game with our lives…It is us that are affected by their bigotry, hate, a selfish desire for a theocratic dictatorship…

    I am not a Cali. Boy so I can't say much about having the same exact feelings some of you are having right now…but I can imagine what they are…All of you have emotions that are worthy of a decent human being…NOM & the rest of their ilk are completely devoid of all of those human emotions…..

    The Reich is right about one thing…there is a wave coming but it certainly is not to drench & quench the dust of their dystopia….we are the ones with the balsa…we are the dolphin riders & the shark tamers…we are the wales that fuel the sea…we are the mermaids that save the lost sailors…We are the water…& that water is spreading & wiping away the filth for a better world…an Equal world…where ALL people are treated like humans…LGBT, Straight, ALL Races, ALL Faiths, ALL Genders, ALL Ages, ALL Creeds….I <3 all of you….

    ; ) …..Ronnie

  • 12. Ronnie  |  November 4, 2010 at 11:44 am

    (C)…Ronnie Mc

  • 13. Ann S.  |  November 4, 2010 at 11:47 am

    I really, really, hate California's initiative system.

  • 14. Gregory in Salt Lake  |  November 4, 2010 at 11:52 am

    I love the story LLB! what a FAB picture too! (sure makes me want to punch those "Christian" women though! )

  • 15. nightshayde  |  November 4, 2010 at 11:52 am

    That's freakin' AWESOME!!!

    There's a little boy in my daughter's dance class who has a collection of princess costumes & princess dolls. He's totally adorable — and his mother rocks really hard. I met the boy's brother and father at the kids' dance recital in June. Really nice family.

  • 16. nightshayde  |  November 4, 2010 at 11:54 am

    Actually, sadly, things like this have passed in more states than just California.

    It disgusts me day in and day out how people try to justify their belief in discrimination.

  • 17. Richard A. Walter (s  |  November 4, 2010 at 11:56 am

    I live in North Carolina. But I can remember where I was, not only when the initial ruling came down for California in 2008 granting marriage equality and on November 4, 2008 when that equality was usurped, but also where I was when Massachusetts granted marriage equality, where I was when Vermont, New Hampshire, Connecticut, Iowa, and even Washington, DC, granted marriage equality. And I know where I will be on 17 November 2010 at 5pm. I will be with my husband in Westbrook, CT, in the parlor of one of their local JP's as we make use of a legal CIVIL marriage license. As we do so, I will also be preparing for our own fight in the court system, as part of a class action lawsuit that we intend to file against NC and the Federal government over the lack of equality. We will be looking for any and all other couples from North Carolina who have been forced to go out of state to get married because North Carolina refuses to grant marriage equality the fair way. Since they do not want to be adult about it, we will go to court. And we will not stop until we win. I am too close to the prize to turn back now, and I want to see marriage equality not only for BZ and myself, but for any and all other gay couples male or female, to be able to stay at home to get married rather than having the additional burden of extra costs and logistics in order to obtain the same rights as any other married couple in this country. This courage, I can only attribute to the family I have found here at P8TT.

  • 18. junebug  |  November 4, 2010 at 12:03 pm

    I was sitting in a coffee shop in the Castro when I found out I could marry the woman I love, and she was sitting there across the table. That was before I was an activist–it seems like so long ago. Right there in the Castro, and we had no idea the CA Supreme Court was even considering the Re: Marriage case! This is how politically unengaged we were then, when suddenly my lady's mom called to announce the news that queers could marry in CA. Andy hits it spot-on when he describes the feeling of "startling freedom" he experienced at that moment. That's how I felt too… like I never knew just how limited my rights were until I suddenly acquired one I hadn't had. I experienced a profound new feeling of citizenship, belonging, and possibility.

    When it became clear that Prop 8 was passing, we were sitting in our apartment in Berkeley, watching the returns on TV. All around us, Berkeley was erupting in a celebratory sea of Obama supporters; they were driving by, honking horns, blasting music, singing, dancing in the street, it seemed. And we felt so kicked out of that party, a party we longed to join. We were thrilled by Obama's historic victory, and yet were quickly hit with a deep feeling of isolation when we realized how marginal our cause seemed to the reveling progressives–our community, we thought–outside. I'm sure the Berkeley-ites voted our way on 8, but they were clearly not too torn up about its passage.

    We were at that candlelight vigil the next day in SF, too, Andy, and that was where we were able to find the feeling of community we lost the night before. I hadn't done enough to fight Prop 8, but I am glad to report that I am 100% more aware, more engaged, and more active now. Between Re: Marriage cases and Prop 8, I had a taste of freedom, and I liked it. I am determined to get it back!

  • 19. Straight Ally #3008  |  November 4, 2010 at 12:04 pm

    I'm so angry when I think of you and BZ being denied equality in the eyes of the law, Richard. Before coming to P8TT, I didn't know anyone impacted by the anti-marriage laws and amendments. Now, it makes the injustice all that much more infuriating.

  • 20. Alan E.  |  November 4, 2010 at 12:09 pm

    Yesterday was my 2 year anniversary (the day before the election!). Nobody can take that day or the joy from it away from me, but it saddens me that other people cannot get married even though they have been together for many years (or decades).

    Also, a person in my class just let me know that she has finally figured out for herself that she is really a man and wants to transition. I didn't know that before I came up to her and let her know that she looked very relaxed, more so than usual, and it turns out the decision came about in the last couple weeks. (I am still confused about pronouns, especially at this stage, so if someone wants to help me out that would be fantastic).

  • 21. Straight Ally #3008  |  November 4, 2010 at 12:09 pm

    OK, P8TTers, I'm going to level with you. I was sitting at an election night party, marveling at the outcome of the Presidential election and enjoying the festive atmosphere with my progressive friends, and the full import of Prop 8 hadn't really sunk in. It was on the periphery, not quite on my radar screen. It was quite some time after the fact, as I watched the reaction of more politically active friends on line, that I really gave the issue some thought and realized what a horrible travesty had just taken place, served up by the Religious Right and their army of useful idiots. The next year, I donated to No on 1 in Maine, and the shock really hit home then as history repeated itself.

  • 22. Lesbians Love Boies  |  November 4, 2010 at 12:14 pm

    Happy belated to you and your's Alan. Congrats!

  • 23. Alan E.  |  November 4, 2010 at 12:24 pm

    h but make sure not to use the word gay. That way it doesn’t look like discrimination.

    This is the entire argument behind the Proponents' case (and NOM) in the Prop 8 trial.

  • 24. Alan E.  |  November 4, 2010 at 12:25 pm

    There are over 1000 comments on her post. There is no way I could even get through them or scratch the surface!

    Yes and that picture is fantastic =)

  • 25. grod  |  November 4, 2010 at 12:30 pm

    @Gregory in Salt Lake City
    I take you question as rhetorical.
    So often, you are the insightful one; the supportive one. It is hard to 'experience' you as the disappointment one. Last evening, in Wade's sense of disappointment, he said that he's writing Iowan judges David Baker, Michael Streit and Marsha Ternus, who lost their jobs because of voters' blind anger. His action seemed constructive/ meaningful.

    A women colleague, who spent her adult life fighting for social justice, said that her generation's struggles were often and indifferently taken for granted by the next, leaving gains vulnerable to being eroded. She experienced setbacks, disappointments,substantial gains, and in her last years worry. She pleaded that others would take up the cause.

    Others and I are fortune that you are committed to this struggle. And it is indeed an enduring struggle.

  • 26. Alan E.  |  November 4, 2010 at 12:31 pm

    The first CA Supreme Court case did not get as much attention as it should have before the decision was made.

    I was at the vigil in SF on the 5th, too, with my battery powered candles. I got my marriage, but way too many did not and cannot.

  • 27. Lesbians Love Boies  |  November 4, 2010 at 12:46 pm

    That's great. I have a friend who thinks her son might be gay (he's only three.) I don't understand why she thinks it – but am highly impressed by her attitude. She will be there for him under any circumstance and love him the same no matter if he is or if he isn't. Unconditional love by a parent will rear a very solid person in the future.

  • 28. Andy Kelley  |  November 4, 2010 at 1:02 pm

    Thanks junebug. Amazing to think that we were at the same event, only to have connected again 2 years later in a completely different space. I too felt robbed of the joy we were supposed to have at Obama's victory, but am looking forward to the day when marriage equality is the law of the land, when we can celebrate completely.

  • 29. Gregory in Salt Lake  |  November 4, 2010 at 1:42 pm

    I'm a bit speechless….well, at least for a few seconds ; ) Thank you for your comments grod. I don't know that we've met but you remind me that comments I post potentially are read by many more than just those that reply. I appreciate your mentioning how we can show support of the judges…because of your comment, I intend to write as well! My Pollyanna (her true name and disposition!) mother always encouraged me to help others or do some physical thing if I felt discouraged. I find doing housework works well for me when I'm having a pity party. I feel it blesses the family and helps me relieve tension…over past few years my hubby has been awakened many times by the clanging of dishes at 3 in the morning when I couldn't lie in bed because of tumultuous thoughts.

    Yes, for me it was a very sad day when Prop8 passed…I was stunned, heart-sick, disbelieving. Aside for my own personal and family reasons which were devastating, I curiously felt even worse for those who voted for prop 8 .I felt bad that some were persuaded by ridiculous "A storm is coming" ads, absurd gay-agenda claims and Miss California wanna bees. I felt compassion and sadness for the minions of Mormons who valiantly followed their church leaders to drain their savings accounts and campaigned for a "righteous" cause. I felt bad for those who use hate of others and for themselves as a motivation to take action. Oddly I didn't feel so bad for us LGBTIQ persons! I felt this was just the fierce SLAP! we needed to wake up and do something and BOY DID IT! Never again will we be coward into hiding–2000-3000 years was long enough!! I will NEVER forget the stunning sight of thousand of Utahans circling Mormon Temple square with enormous rainbow flags, yelling, honking, cursing, singing, hugging… it was wondrous,spine-tingling and gloriously inspiring!

    My commitment to this struggle is for many…. my dearest hubby who is brilliant, highly educated, and is severely limited and sanctioned by circumstances completely out of his control. I fight so my children can grow up in a less prejudiced world. I suffer and feel compassion for those anonygrl described in her "higher ground" declaration and more!. I'm able to cope with the stresses of this fight because of people like you that make up in this P8TT community: people who I can cry, laugh,be encouraged (even be discouraged) with. Tears flowing freely now for all you dear persons out there trying to survive in this vortex.

    Love and light to all – Gregory

  • 30. Ann S.  |  November 4, 2010 at 1:51 pm

    I've probably mentioned this before, but my brother and his husband were among the plaintiffs in the 2008 case (aka "In Re Marriage Cases"). They had married in 2004, only to have all those marriages voided by the California Supreme Court. They married again in 2008 on the first day that they were allowed to, in San Francisco City Hall. I think I have described (probably more than once!) what a wonderful, joyous day that was.

  • 31. JUSTIN 888  |  November 4, 2010 at 2:05 pm

    hi there richard ,my names justin , im a straight ally in calfornia , any what im saying is my sister and her girlfriend have been together for a long time now in north carolina and it is past time for all americans in to be equal. so thanks for the courage and moving forward and good luck in your lawsuit

  • 32. Santa Barbara Mom  |  November 4, 2010 at 3:26 pm

    Hi Gregory. I love reading your posts and so often wish I could just give you a big hug :) I, too, can't allow myself to go back to that night. I stayed up staring at the TV, praying for the numbers to change. It was a very divisive and terrible time for our family, and I can only hope that someday my family will return to the same closeness that we had always had before.

  • 33. Straight Ally #3008  |  November 4, 2010 at 3:53 pm

    Am I the only one who thought of this old Saturday Night Live commercial? :D

  • 34. Lora  |  November 4, 2010 at 4:29 pm

    I remember the liberating feeling when the decision allowing us to marry came down. I called my ex, who's still my closest friend,…we were so excited. We both got married during that summer of 2008…she to her girlfriend of 3 years and me to mine off 10! (btw…they just found out that they're pregnant this week!!)
    As I've shared before…my coworkers and friends have been WONDERFUL. They immediately asked if Abagail and I were going to get married, had a big summer BBQ celebration for us giving us cards and gifts and congratulations!

    I was working nights during the election of 2008 so a co-worker and I were watching the returns online and both celebrating the election of Obama and couldn't believe that prop. 8 was actually passing. The following day I walked in to work devastated and angry. My friends and co-workers felt so bad for me. Some almost didn't know what to say…kind of like when someone dies. I kept getting texts during the day asking me if I was ok and to stay strong.
    Sadly but not surprising…not a word from my family.

  • 35. Franck  |  November 4, 2010 at 4:39 pm

    Since I live 10 hours ahead of California, I learned of the results while coming to work the following day. It did feel like a heavy physical blow — the shock and the incredulity left me mentally unresponsive for over an hour. Then it went right to despair, and most of my day was spent hiding my tears from my colleagues.

    Said colleagues had been ribbing me for days about my dedication to campaigning against Prop. 8 despite being on the other side of the world. That day, they had started doing that as usual, but thankfully stopped when they realized the proposition had passed and the shock had rendered me mentally unresponsive.

    Fortunately for me, I managed to talk to C. that day, and as usual, he did a lot to get me right back up. That evening, I was still crying, but the bitterness had been replaced by gratitude for his existence and determination not to let that injustice stand.

    Of course, two months later, my mind was brutally taken off that subject for a while to deal with more immediate concerns, but well, here I am, still determined, still grateful.

    – Franck P. Rabeson
    Days spent apart from my fiancé because of DOMA: 1232 days, as of today.

  • 36. Brittney  |  November 4, 2010 at 5:05 pm

    Watching this made me cry a little :)

    I wonder when my fiance and I will be able to marry.
    Living in Alabama, probably not any time soon……

  • 37. BK  |  November 4, 2010 at 5:31 pm

    Hey, trackers! This is somewhat off-topic, but I wanted to bring this little article to light. It's found on the Focus On The Family's website:
    http://www.focusonthefamily.com/faith/christian_w…

    There's a paragraph in there that mentions gays (esp. gay Christians) which states:

    "Interfaith dialogue could also prove difficult when conversing with other groups that may claim devotion to the Christian faith like The Gay Christian Network, a nonprofit ministry which challenges biblical authority because it supports unrepentant Christians worldwide who have chose [sic] to be lesbian, gay, bisexual or transgender."

    Even if FotF says sexual orientation is *not* a choice, they still put forward the false claim that it is. Another disgusting hypocrisy. :

  • 38. Ally in Hope  |  November 4, 2010 at 5:32 pm

    November 4th, 2008…as has already been said here, a day of incredible highs, and discouraging lows. A day where I saw a man few saw coming but many came to believe in win the presidency…the same day I saw dear friends lose something they should never have lost. Right up to the election I believed California would never do anything like that to its own, which I think only accentuated the deep disappointment I felt with my state when I learned it had. I spent some time thereafter being a little angry, a little sad, and one part guilty, for not having been able to have done more.

    It's been two years, and I am still a little angry, a little sad, and a little guilty…but mostly now I am hopeful. I see public opinion changing, people who not 24 months ago would have voted for 8 now reconsidering the position. I've seen mothers standing next to their sons, and fathers next to their daughters, uncaring of their sexual orientation as long as they were happy. My own future wife has told me that we have to make sure we make clear to the children we plan on having that we will love them no matter what sex they end up with and/or choose to identify themselves as. (This may in part help to explain why I already know I'm going to marry her:) ). I see a future where people are treated with respect, treated equally and seen as such under the law…a future I don't think is that far off at all. And I hope to see you all there when it happens. Just watch…as a man once said, "the best is yet to come".

  • 39. Sagesse  |  November 4, 2010 at 9:32 pm

    Feels better when a national news organization says it.

    Conservatives love "results oriented judges" they agree with"
    http://voices.washingtonpost.com/plum-line/2010/1…

  • 40. Sagesse  |  November 4, 2010 at 9:52 pm

    We all know the one about the light at the end of the tunnel. At least there's a light

    'Don't ask, don't tell' could divide Republicans
    http://voices.washingtonpost.com/federal-eye/2010…

  • 41. Gregory in Salt Lake  |  November 4, 2010 at 10:54 pm

    ((HUGS)) right back at you my dear mom in Santa Barbara! More tears for you and your family (sobbing actually)….Its just so damn hard sometimes! Love, Gregory

  • 42. Richard A. Walter (s  |  November 4, 2010 at 11:31 pm

    And speaking of hypocrisy, I just found out from WTVD that the RNC paid for and arranged a commercial attacking Democrat Bob Etheridge which resulted in his challenger Rene Ellmers winning his seat in Congress. The ad is done in a way that makes it look as though Bob Etheridge is attacking a young boy, when in fact, the whole thing was a set-up. The only reason the Rupugnicans have come clean about it now is that they think it is too late to change things, and yet there are votes in the district that have not yet been counted.

  • 43. Anonygrl  |  November 5, 2010 at 12:49 am

    I realize I may not have said so, but Greg, I am as often moved by what you write as you are by what I write.

    Your stories and insights are inspirational, and I very much appreciate them, and feel your frustration on days when you can't find words to express your outrage about something you have just read, and your joy on days when you paint such vivid pictures of people coming together to celebrate and protest…

    I would actually like to say this to the entire P8TT community. Thanks for ALL of your perspectives. From anger and sorrow through excitement and delight, this place and the people here make the fight even more worthwhile and help ME to be able to stand up to more than even I think I can, some days. Even the trolls who come in from time to time give me the chance to exercise my logic muscles (even if the trolls don't actually listen or learn anything from it, *I* do).

    Love to all of you!!!

  • 44. Anonygrl  |  November 5, 2010 at 1:02 am

    Congratulations on your anniversary!

    My suggestion about the pronoun issue is that you ask her. She might a) find it somewhat comforting that someone cares enough to ask and b)not really have a good answer ready, and be glad of the opportunity to work that out with someone who is sympathetic.

    Having a couple of friends who are in different stages of transitioning, I can only say that there does not seem to be a hard and fast rule about it. One friend is still in an early stage and sometimes appears as a woman, sometimes as a man. She prefers that people use the pronouns that reflect how he is dressed that day, even if it is somewhat confusing. Another says "I am really a woman, call me she no matter what." I know that others may prefer to be addressed one way until they reach a specific point in their transitions (sometimes that point is a symbolic one) and the other way past that point.

  • 45. fiona64  |  November 5, 2010 at 1:25 am

    I had tears of elation as Pres. Obama was elected, and tears of grief and disbelief as Prop 8 passed.

    I, too, still have my signs — despite the best efforts of the neighbor kid to make me take them down from the lawn before the election.

    Love,
    Fiona

  • 46. fiona64  |  November 5, 2010 at 1:29 am

    This times infinity. ^^

    Love,
    Fiona

  • 47. Gregory in Salt Lake  |  November 5, 2010 at 1:30 am

    your few words say much fiona!

    Yay! Still have signs! : D

  • 48. Ronnie  |  November 5, 2010 at 1:54 am

    LGBT & Heterosexual, All Races, Faiths & Genders, Same Gender & Opposite Gender Couples, Friends & Family… all Broadway Stars saying "It Gets Better"……<3…Ronnie:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YRwZfLpibh0&fe…

  • 49. Bill  |  November 5, 2010 at 1:56 am

    Off topic, but came across the hate-video by a group that I believe are calling themselves 'Intelligent Christians.'
    http://www.queersighted.com/2010/11/05/cool-young…

    Never heard of these folks before. Is this a new NOM???

  • 50. Ronnie  |  November 5, 2010 at 1:58 am

    The cast of the new Broadway adaptation of "Priscilla Queen of the Desert" say "It Gets Better"…..<3…Ronnie:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KAgufQSRVcI

  • 51. bb  |  November 5, 2010 at 2:18 am

    Hi all,
    I usually don't post comments—I’m the quite reader type. Doesn't mean I don't visit this site and read every day… sometime twice or three times a day, but I feel compelled to comment on this.

    I know where I was, May 17, 2008 (the day of the opinion). That day is my daughter’s birthday. My partner (now husband) and I were busy trying to find candles for the birthday cake. There was a knock on the front door—it was a neighbor who we are close to. He said: “did you hear? Did you hear?” I think he was more excited about the news than we were, to be honest.

    When it became legal in June 2008, my partner and I discussed the possibility of marriage. His thought was that a piece of paper doesn’t change the way he felt about me, nor did he need anyone to “officially” recognize our relationship—for him it was a non-issue.

    On August 9, 2008, (it was a Saturday), about a week after our brief marriage discussion, he read about a story were a lesbian was denied access to a her dying partner in a hospital in Florida. Oh man was he fired up! He couldn’t understand why a hospital would deny access. I told him “….it’s because they’re not married”.

    Well, something resonated with him. I don’t know exactly what went thru his brain. He didn’t want that situation to ever occur with us I suppose. So, he grabbed his keys and said “let’s go!” I was puzzled, “where?” I said. He replied: “to get married!” I was dumb-struck. It’s one of those “deer in the headlight” moments. I immediately called my daughter and told her we were getting married and I needed two witnesses, and wanted her to be one of them. My husband called the person to initially introduced us, and asked if she would be a witness, and to meet us at the Recorders Office. The brief ceremony went well. We had a huge party with all of our friends the following Saturday.

    So, you see, I won’t ever forget where I was.

  • 52. bb  |  November 5, 2010 at 2:20 am

    Hi all,
    I usually don't post comments—I’m the quite reader. Doesn't mean I don't visit this site and read every day… sometime twice or three times a day, but I feel compelled to comment on this.

    I know where I was, May 17, 2008 (the day of the opinion). That day is my daughter’s birthday. My partner (now husband) and I were busy trying to find candles for the birthday cake. There was a knock on the front door—it was a neighbor who we are close to. He said: “did you hear? Did you hear?” I think he was more excited about the new than we were, to be honest.

    When it became legal in June 2008, my partner and I discussed the possibility of marriage. His thought was that a piece of paper doesn’t change the way he felt about me, nor did he need anyone to “officially” recognize our relationship—for him it was a non-issue.

    On August 9, 2008, (it was a Saturday), about a week after our brief marriage discussion, he read about a story were a lesbian was denied access to a her dying partner in a hospital in Florida. Oh man was he fired up! He couldn’t understand why a hospital would deny access. I told him “….it’s because they’re not married”.

    Well, something resonated with him. I don’t know exactly what went thru his brain. He didn’t want that situation to ever occur with us I suppose. So, he grabbed his keys and said “let’s go!” I was puzzled, “where?” I said. He replied: “to get married!” I was dumb-struck. It’s one of those “deer in the headlight” moments. I immediately called my daughter and told her we were getting married and I needed two witnesses, and wanted her to be one of them. My husband called the person to initially introduced us, and asked if she would be a witness, and to meet us at the Recorders Office. We had a huge party the following Saturday.

    So, you see, I won’t ever forget where I was.

  • 53. Gregory in Salt Lake  |  November 5, 2010 at 2:20 am

    I kept thinking about the essay LLB post and the ADORABLE kid and the closed minded parents…

    I decided to put together a few Halloween 2010 comparison pictures of my own…see photo captions for more info…..
    http://picasaweb.google.com/104478088423940456823…

  • 54. bb  |  November 5, 2010 at 2:25 am

    Sorry for the double post. The first post didn't seem to take… I should learn to be more patient :)

  • 55. Ed  |  November 5, 2010 at 2:32 am

    You should pull the video up on youtube and read the comments…..quite hilarious, and very much in favor of us. :)

  • 56. Lesbians Love Boies  |  November 5, 2010 at 2:33 am

    Great.

    Sarah was interviewed on CNN. Her entire family is supportive of her son's choice to be Daphney (sp?) from Scooby Doo.
    http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/bestoftv/2010/11…

  • 57. Lesbians Love Boies  |  November 5, 2010 at 2:34 am

    Alan, there are now over 19,000 comments and over 1 million hits. Overwhelmingly supportive of Sarah and her son.

  • 58. Sagesse  |  November 5, 2010 at 2:41 am

    The truth is, people aren't single issue voters. Some interesting comments on the prospects for ENDA and DADT repeal in the lame duck session.

    Gay Voters' Support For Republicans Doubled From 2008
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/11/05/gay-vote…

  • 59. Straight Ally #3008  |  November 5, 2010 at 2:50 am

    The Republican electorate is an uncomfortable alliance of fiscal pragmatists and small-government types (for the most part, my relatives fall into this category), the so-called "social conservatives" that fill the ranks of the Religious Right. There's no reason LBGT people can't be in the first group (well, there may be quite a few self-hating closeted ones *cough*Tony Perkins*cough*Peter Sprigg*cough* in the second group), but the fact that the second group is in the same tent makes it hard for me to comprehend their support.

  • 60. IT  |  November 5, 2010 at 2:53 am

    I remember the surprise that it was possible
    The disbelief as we moved ahead with wedding planning
    The utterly amazing, joyful, wonderful moment of marriage
    the anger at Obama's voice on the robocalls
    the frustration at the incompetence of the campaign
    The energy of standing with signs–and being spit at and cursed
    the total depression of the day after the election

    That's why I set up my blog, Gay Married Californian, to tell our stories, and be ambassadors for justice.

  • 61. Gregory in Salt Lake  |  November 5, 2010 at 3:17 am

    glad 2 hear the dad is supportive too …AND I SUPER glad the "Doctor" mention that gay youth 4 times more likely to commit suicide and to love and accept kids "no matter what"

  • 62. Gregory in Salt Lake  |  November 5, 2010 at 3:22 am

    Bless you for your fighting Spirit Richard and for your efforts! Marking Calendar November 17! : D

  • 63. Gregory in Salt Lake  |  November 5, 2010 at 3:22 am

    OVER 1 MILLION NOW!!!!!!

  • 64. Gregory in Salt Lake  |  November 5, 2010 at 3:23 am

    (according to the CNN report)

  • 65. Mark  |  November 5, 2010 at 3:29 am

    I was in the hospital when I heard that Prop 8 had passed (I had voted absentee). I became very depressed, but I thought there was a light at the end of the tunnel because, at the same time, Barrack Obama had been elected to the White House (the President of change). Well, two years later, he has not done anything to eliminate DADT or DOMA. But, at least here in California, we now have representatives in Sacramento that are on our side. So, I am very hopeful that there is once again a light at the end of the tunnel.

  • 66. Ann S.  |  November 5, 2010 at 3:42 am

    Thanks for sharing that story, bb! And a belated congratulations on your marriage.

  • 67. JonT  |  November 5, 2010 at 3:46 am

    'The problem for anti-marriage equality activists is that by relying on this system of might makes right, they're living on borrowed time. Support for same-sex marriage rights has been inching toward a decisive majority for years. It's really only a matter of time before opponents of marriage equality find themselves the minor party, and an overbearing majority of Americans look back at Prop 8 with the same kind of confusion as Plessy v. Ferguson, wondering how such a world could ever have existed.'

    Indeed… :)

  • 68. fiona64  |  November 5, 2010 at 3:48 am

    We've been having some weird issues with delays periodically.

    Welcome to the party. Have a cookie. :-)

    Love,
    Fiona

  • 69. Mouse  |  November 5, 2010 at 3:55 am

    In 2000, I was carpooling to work with an ostensibly straight man who is unhappily married to a Chinese woman from Brazil. He flirted with me, though he doesn't believe he was doing so. I was out, and he never seemed to have a problem with it. He had hung out with me and my boyfriend as well as other gay couple friends and seemed accepting.

    I hadn't really talked to him about Prop 22 because I didn't think I had anything to worry about. Imagine my surprise when on a ride to work one morning, I picked up the voter guide he had left on the floor of the passenger side of his Sienna and saw the bubble filled in for "Yes" on Prop 22.

    I couldn't believe it. I knew he liked practical jokes and sometimes he didn't understand the lines of what's funny and what's insensitive, so I asked, "Is this a joke? If it is, it's not funny." He got defensive and declared it was not a joke.

    I probed and tried to understand. All I got was pseudo-religious nonsense. He parroted some of the NOMsense lines, and didn't seem bothered when I shot them down with logic. He wasn't arguing with logic, he was arguing with Faith. I couldn't get him to understand why this hurt me, let alone explain how he could justify thinking that way and consider himself my friend.

    Fast forward several years and we have the CA Supreme Court calling bullshit on angry voters with torches taking away the rights of a class of citizens they happen not to like. Discrimination law struck down, and a date is set when we can get married legally.

    This is more exciting than in 2004 when Gavin Newsom started handing out marriage licenses in violation of Prop 22. Prop 22 is dead, and the state says it's for real now, so it won't be like those marriages that later got annulled.

    I was sitting at work when I read the news. I couldn't really believe it. I remember wiping tears and saying "Thank you" to my computer monitor, as if the message would make it to the judges who ruled in fairness. After a lifetime of being taught not to expect fairness because people had such strong hateful prejudices, it was so refreshing and uplifting.

    My boyfriend and I talked about the decision, but the idea of us getting married didn't factor into that early conversation. Since it had never been an option, it had never been a dream of ours. We had our house together and our lives were great. We had living trusts set up. What would marriage do for us anyway? It was cool that it was available, but we didn't know if it was right for us.

    Then the Mormons and the NOMnuts stirred things up with Prop 8. If Prop 22 was overturned because it was unconstitutional, then they would just submit it again as a change to the constitution itself. That was infuriating. What kind of evil person thinks enshrining discrimination into the state constitution is a good idea? It's an embarrassment for the state.

    By this time, I had forgiven the friend I first mentioned. The rights he voted to take away were restored by the CA Supreme Court, so what was the point holding a grudge? We were headed to lunch one day and something caused him to jokingly say, "Oh yeah, we haven't argued over Prop 8 yet." We were riding in my car, and I snapped, "We better not have anything to argue about, or I will fucking leave you on the side of the road."

    We had things to argue about. Over an hour in the parking lot on a Friday evening after work, we fought. Emotions ran high, but nothing really got communicated. I can't even begin to explain how devastating it was to have someone I thought loved me suddenly show this deep prejudice and not even understand how it was hateful and hurtful.

    "I don't want marriage redefined"
    "If you meant that, you wouldn't be supporting a measure to redefine it as a constitutional amendment."

    Babbled nonsense about the religious sacrament of marriage. "You know, the freedom of religion we get from the First Amendment means that religious sacraments – which have no legal consequences whatsoever – are protected; churches that support same-sex couples will still be able to marry them; churches that don't will still be able to refuse to perform the religious ceremony. This isn't about that. This is about the civil contract and the rights and obligations that go along with it."
    "Not to me it isn't"
    "Well, then you shouldn't vote on this because you're not voting on the real issue and your delusional perspective is damaging to my rights."

    And most enlightening, "If we allow gay marriage, then kids would be more likely to experiment because they would think it was okay."
    Seriously? "It IS okay."

    I left angry, he left angry. The next week at work, he kept inviting me to go to the gym or out to lunch as if nothing was wrong. "You just told me that you have some deep-seated fundamental problem with a part of my identity, and that you are going to contribute to amending the constitution to discriminate against me. After that, what makes you think we can be friends? Friends do not amend the state constitution to take away the rights of their friends." I had to explain this one several times before he stopped trying to brush things off like everything was fine

    The election loomed closer. We had donated to the No on 8 campaign twice. Many of our friends were rushing to get married before the election potentially took our rights away. I talked to my boyfriend about it again.

    We both agreed that we enjoyed the idea of getting married as a way of saying a big "Fuck you!" to the NOM crowd. We also agreed that this, in and of itself, was not a good enough reason to make such a major decision.

    We didn't know what it would mean to us in terms of taxes. Would we end up paying more taxes because of it? What else would it mean? We tried to find answers, but it wasn't easy to get a good understanding of exactly what were the legal changes that come with a marriage license.

    We had ordered rings – we had been together for seven years, and even if we didn't get a legal marriage license, we wanted to wear rings to show the world that we were in a committed relationship. They were still being made.

    We turned the question around and thought about our relationship, putting aside the flipping off of NOM. We asked ourselves, "Is there any reason we should not get married?" We love each other, we're happy together. Neither of us was going anywhere else. No, there was not a reason for us to not get married.

    We went down to the county clerk's office on Oct 30th. We didn't tell a bunch of people or throw a big party. Some of my husband's coworkers showed up anyway. It was a beautiful day, and moving in ways more powerful than I ever expected. Our rings still had not arrived, so we couldn't exchange them as part of the ceremony but we each made vows to one another.

    I remember thinking, "Prop 8 may take away the rights that come along with this, but we will still be married because no one can undo the vows we've just made except us."

    A few days later was the election. Several friends were at our house for a craft night, but not much craft work was getting done. I kept hitting refresh on my web browser to try to get election returns. The servers were slammed, and it was hard to get information.

    Then it started coming in. Obama was winning! But the Prop 8 numbers were close and we weren't on top. Still, it was early, and maybe only really conservative places had checked in their counts? My friends were starting to feel celebratory because of the lead Obama had, but I was robbed of any emotional reaction to that with the gut punch of knowing that slightly more than half of the voters thought it was okay to take away my rights.

    It was so disappointing. I had thought California was better than that. I had thought that "Eliminates the rights…" in the wording would impress people and let them know that this was wrong to support.

    Our rings had arrived that day. We exchanged them in our home in front of our friends on election day, not knowing if the marriage we had just entered into would legally mean anything tomorrow.

  • 70. Gregory in Salt Lake  |  November 5, 2010 at 4:15 am

    I'm glad you mentioned this again as I do not recall hearing it before… what a heartbreak…then JOY!

  • 71. Gregory in Salt Lake  |  November 5, 2010 at 4:17 am

    Thank you for sharing your story junebug…we will overcome!

  • 72. Gregory in Salt Lake  |  November 5, 2010 at 4:18 am

    DITTO! Congrats Alan E. : )

  • 73. Gregory in Salt Lake  |  November 5, 2010 at 4:24 am

    so many emotions…a very powerful story Lora…wow! My parents/siblings love me but don't follow LGBT issues much at all and quite unaware. I don't know your family story but I'm sorry if it is difficult for you : (

  • 74. Gregory in Salt Lake  |  November 5, 2010 at 4:27 am

    Alabama!? Might have better luck in Utah! I went to High School for part of a year in Talladega, very nice people but seemed most everyone was bible-thumping Baptist.

  • 75. Gregory in Salt Lake  |  November 5, 2010 at 4:29 am

    Thank you for being an Ally!!!!! hope your "hope" is right! ("The best is yet to come")

  • 76. Gregory in Salt Lake  |  November 5, 2010 at 4:32 am

    Gosh! More tears for me! thanks bb for lovely story : )

  • 77. Gregory in Salt Lake  |  November 5, 2010 at 4:35 am

    glad u mentioned this fiona as I was wondering….

  • 78. Gregory in Salt Lake  |  November 5, 2010 at 4:39 am

    p.s. ordered your book : ) waiting anxiously to come in the mail!

  • 79. Ann S.  |  November 5, 2010 at 4:44 am

    Mouse, that's so sad about the loss of your friendship and the hurt your former friend caused you. I don't understand people like him, who can want to be your friend and yet want to vote to take away your rights. Friends want their friends to have equal rights.

  • 80. Lesbians Love Boies  |  November 5, 2010 at 5:06 am

    That is one popular kid now!

  • 81. Gregory in Salt Lake  |  November 5, 2010 at 5:46 am

    thank you for your elaborate and moving story mouse : )

    How very poignant and poetic to exchange rings on election day…I cried when I read that as a result of your story and for personal reasons…

    Not married yet but we wear rings…We have rings that we took to California in hopes/anticipation the stay would be lifted following Judge Walker's ruling it was not as 9th district court intervened… On way back from CA we spent a night in Las Vegas at the Luxor.. We were feeling irritable and somehow one of the rings (mine) got lost and we had not yet got to wear them…. we argued venting some of our disappointment, barely noticing the luxurious suite we reserved. After a sleepless night kissed and made up in the morning.

    Got back to Utah, and behold I found the other ring in a random back full of loose laundry! I jumped for joy and we exchanged rings right there, half dressed and unkempt and un-showerd…in our cluttered living room.

    We wear our rings now as a symbol of commitment looking forward to marriage. We have a little ritual where we exchange rings and kiss at the beginning of each day…often in the wee hours my hubby still in bed as I'm leaving at 5:30a…I gently wake him and he reaches instinctively for the ring no matter how tired. Sorry to ramble….your story really touched me as I'm feeling very emotional/sentimental since election night. ((HUGS)) Gregory

  • 82. fiona64  |  November 5, 2010 at 6:15 am

    Awww … thank you, Gregory! I hope that you enjoy it.

    Love,
    Fiona

  • 83. Ronnie  |  November 5, 2010 at 6:19 am

    Here is a great short documentary from Criagslist TV of Reverend Lorelei Starbuck officiating Michael and Luca's wedding.

    Luca got a touching surprise at the end of the wedding…..<3…Ronnie:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oNvXuyTqHX4&fe…

  • 84. Ann S.  |  November 5, 2010 at 6:21 am

    Gregory, I love your story about your rings, too! Thanks for sharing.

  • 85. Rhie  |  November 5, 2010 at 6:31 am

    Never heard of that particular group but I know the ones listed in their links. They range from Crazy Christian Right to Very Crazy Christian Right. So I would hazard a guess this is a new group on that side. They pop up like mushrooms and are just about as hard to kill.

  • 86. Rhie  |  November 5, 2010 at 6:42 am

    It's a fact that the two wars were not paid for nor was their any plan to pay for them and that is what exploded the deficit. It's also a fact that the tax cuts the Republicans propose will TRIPLE the deficit.

    Spending and tax cuts both have the same effect on the budget initially. However, spending on the proper programs – like, say, food stamps and infrastructure – will lead to gains in the long run. Tax cuts, especially for the rich, won't do a thing except line pockets.

    There are three legs to the economy: consumer spending, business spending and government spending. Spending expands the economy. Not spending shrinks it and, in high numbers, lead to depressions and recessions. Consumers and businesses aren't spending so government has to. See Hoover and FDR for why.

    Republicans are calling for tax cuts for the rich and government not spending. They are also threatening to not raise the debt ceiling. That will cause the US to default and lead to a massive financial chaos the likes of which we have never seen.

    So, why are Republicans fiscally responsible?

    As far as small government. Yes, they are. They are for a government just small enough to fit in the bedrooms of every person and the uterus of every woman. Why exactly is this a good thing?

  • 87. Ann S.  |  November 5, 2010 at 7:04 am

    Well put, Rhie!

  • 88. Richard A. Walter (s  |  November 5, 2010 at 7:35 am

    OOPS! I put the date we are leaving for the trip instead of the wedding date. The wedding will be on November 18th at 5pm. Thanks, Greg in Salt Lake City for your post, which helped me catch my mistake!

  • 89. Mouse  |  November 5, 2010 at 8:21 am

    The whole experience has been full of surprises from people. There was the one "friend" who turned out to be working for the other side and couldn't even comprehend why that was wrong, and that was heartbreaking.

    But there have been so many others who have been supportive that I never would have expected – including very Catholic family members who shocked the hell out of me by not falling victim to the religion-cultivated bigotry.

    I haven't ruled out fixing that friendship, but before that can happen I need to have equality restored, and I need him to understand why he was wrong and apologize.

  • 90. Ricky "D"  |  November 5, 2010 at 9:56 am

    I am a straight man with an open mind. I do not know what it is to be LGBT. Nor do I pretend to. I marched, I gave money I talked to my neighbors and kids.
    I know this is off topic but I feel compelled to say this. After seeing the video of Michael & Luca it seems to me that the repeal of Prop 8 movement needs the backing of the straight community behind it. Without it there were not enough votes. Let's repeal prop 8 and have some fun doing it. More marches, more activism, more good times and together let's show the world the difference between right and wrong.

  • 91. Richard A. Walter (s  |  November 5, 2010 at 10:07 am

    And we need our allies even more here in North Carolina, especially since the Republicans have taken control of both houses of our legislature for the first time in a century. And they are very staunchly in NOM's corner, between Southern Baptists, Catholics, and LD$.

  • 92. Tomato  |  November 5, 2010 at 12:12 pm

    When marriage became legal, my girlfriend and I talked about it. We thought we'd do it in about a year or so.

    As Prop 8 started to loom, I got nervous. I said we should marry sooner or the opportunity might be gone. She wanted to wait, and to plan an elaborate traditional wedding. I disagreed. (foreshadowing: I won!)

    I called our minister and discussed options. I called "Brilliant Earth" in San Francisco and made an appointment to choose rings.

    On the morning of mid-summer's day, we went out to walk across the Golden Gate Bridge. Somewhere in the middle, while watching sailboats from on of those little lookout balcony things, I got down on one knee and proposed. She said, "Yes!"

    We chose and ordered our rings that afternoon, and when we got them we went to our church and were married by our minister in the courtyard on a beautiful sunny day. Just us, the minister, and one witness.

    It was the wedding of my dreams!

    (Our minister, Rev. Gregory Stewart, is very active in marriage equality. http://www.uusf.org )

    When California has marriage equality again, we plan to renew our vows at our church and have a big celebration for all our friends and family.

    "What God has joined together, let no man tear asunder!"

  • 93. DK  |  November 5, 2010 at 12:25 pm

    I am a straight ally, a transplanted Californian, and late on election day in 2008 I was in CT waiting up as the results from California trickled in. My elation at the presidential results was dampened later that evening when I realized prop 8 was going to pass.
    Here in CT same-sex marriage had been legalized just a few weeks before the elections. I had such hopes for my home state…and still do! As David Boies said on the AFER video–let's hope this is the last major civil rights battle in our country.
    DK

  • 94. Richard A. Walter (s  |  November 5, 2010 at 1:24 pm

    DK, what part of CT are you in? We will be in Westbrook on the 18th of this month to get married. Would like to meet you if possible.

  • 95. Bob  |  November 5, 2010 at 1:52 pm

    yes Ricky, you get it, when you take a sober look and see how all Americans could stand together on this issue, because it involves the larger one of religion and big business taking over the country. grassroots marches in the streets, party show the world what America stands for. and shut those religious bigots up. Americans together across lines can see the common goal………….woot woot

  • 96. DK  |  November 6, 2010 at 3:07 am

    Hi Richard,
    Wow, Westbrook is close! I am in the Stonington area…the far southeastern corner of the state. Would love to meet up! I don't post my email addresses or do Facebook and such, so let me know how best to contact you off-line.
    DK

  • 97. Mark M  |  November 6, 2010 at 4:05 am

    Big Hugs Ricky!
    Thank you for 'getting it'!!!!

  • 98. Mark M  |  November 6, 2010 at 9:03 am

    November 4th 2008 Robert and I were flying home from Greece. We had totally splurged and celebrated our 25th anniversary in style. We found out Obama had won the election as we boarded our plane in Paris to head home. We were SO happy ! Never occurred to either of us that Prop 8 had passed….wasn't even conceivable to us….it was California for heavens sake.
    Once we got home and knew the truth we were devastated.
    We couldn't understand how something so completely wrong, so totally hateful have been made law.
    It changed everything for us. Our future plans had to be put on hold.
    We had planned to relocate back to San Diego, get married, and look forward to retiring in another 10 years
    Prop 8 and unexpected health issues have completely changed our lives….in major devastating ways.

  • 99. Bob  |  November 6, 2010 at 9:30 am

    Fiona, I thought of you while watching Rachel Maddow, last nite, cause she used that phrase In the Eye of the Beholder, that's the title of your book isn't it.

  • 100. Richard A. Walter (s  |  November 6, 2010 at 12:59 pm

    Click on my name. This is a link to my blog on WordPress. I will then be able to contact you without the danger of publicly exposing your email.

  • 101. DK  |  November 6, 2010 at 1:49 pm

    Done! Looking forward to hearing from you. BTW I don't usually get to check email until fairly late in the evenings.

  • 102. Richard A. Walter (s  |  November 6, 2010 at 2:16 pm

    I got it, and just sent you an email with all the pertinent contact information. Looking forward to it. And in the Rabbi's house, there is no such thing as too late to call. We are usually up before God, and she usually goes to bed before we do, LOL!

  • 103. Lora  |  November 6, 2010 at 6:05 pm

    This all reminds me of a friend of mine…one of 6 siblings, 2 of them gay. The whole family is aware of their sexuality. Her family is Mormon but she has left the church.
    Her mother not only donated to the Yes on 8 campaign but was out on the street corner with signs before election day.
    She did not understand how her mother could do that and her mother couldn't understand why she was upset about it. Wow!

  • 104. Gregory in Salt Lake  |  November 8, 2010 at 12:44 am

    Wow is right!

  • 105. fiona64  |  November 8, 2010 at 2:43 am

    Hi, Bob. That is indeed the title of my novel. Its overall theme is compassion, and it talks about love between people of whom society disapproves. I am so very proud of it.

    Love,
    Fiona

  • 106. Gregory in Salt Lake  |  November 8, 2010 at 4:14 am

    @DK
    Thank u for story DK and for being an ALLY! I too have hopes for CT and the whole country!

    "..let’s hope this is the last major civil rights battle in our country."

    There is a still a huge debate about immigration and Hispanic issues that have yet to be solved as well that affects our household and extended family as much as the LGBTIQ equality issues.

    I celebrate every small or large gain toward equality for everyone!

  • 107. DK  |  November 8, 2010 at 4:46 am

    @Gregory,
    My hopes are now pinned on CA (and of course the rest of the country). I have friends back in my home town of San Diego who are adversely affected by prop 8, and of course there are so many more who I don't personally know. Yes, you are right that there are immigration issues and that there is still racial discrimination lingering on (and let's not even get into things like becoming more environmentally and socially responsible). I just hope we continue to take steps forward for a more just society. I'm trying to remain optimistic in spite of the recent elections.

    @Richard–hope to see you and BZ soon! :)

    DK

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