Day 4 on the NOM California tour: Karyme Lozano says adios, cruel world

September 30, 2010

If you missed the original interview Arisha conducted with Karyme Lozano, check it out before reading this post. Quite the goings-on today. Keep in touch, Karyme! — Adam

By Arisha Michelle Hatch

Stop #18: Stockton

Twenty minutes after 10 AM, the Vota Bus finally arrived at Weber Point park in Stockton with three large vans filled with 42 (predominantly Latino and male) members of an organization called Victory Outreach, a Christian men’s group that does outreach in inner-city communities. Three local equality supporters also stopped by to check things out. Here’s the Christian men’s group:

“I don’t know why I’m here,” one man said. “We’re just following the leader.”

Arisha talking to the pastor with Victory Outreach

It appears that Vota Tus Valores learned a little bit from yesterday’s events and are now attempting to organize. Can they keep it up? Will progressives continue to come out in opposition? Only time will tell.

A few notes on the tour setup. The Vota Bus is accompanied by three advance cars: two white Dodge Caravans (one has Nevada plates and the other has California plates), as well as a gray Jeep Grand Cherokee.

Yesterday, the general practice seemed to be that 2 cars would scout the initial location – take note of any organized counter-protest and radio back to the Vota Bus. The caravan with California plates would then lead the Vota Bus to the scheduled location or to some sort of abandoned parking/Mexican restaurant based on some set of criteria that I can’t figure out.

My hunch is that they avoid locations with viable counter-protest unless there is some compelling reason that they must go to the location (like when a major news outlet is expected). Flashmob counter-protests may be the most effective way to counter.

Stop #19: Modesto

In Modesto, the Vota Bus stopped at a local farmers’ market bringing with them the three vans from Victory Outreach. Should we count those 42 in the tally again?

The Courage media blackout is still in effect. I kind of understand it, I wouldn’t want Alfonso speaking for my organization either. Karyme Lozano got a little feisty this morning as Alfonso rejected yet another interview.

“We saw your blog and we should see that you don’t show the truth, you change the truth,” Lozano said as she was hurried back onto the bus. I asked her and her comrades what exactly I “lied” about and she refused to respond. Watch:

Attention You cannot go around with a camera in a person’s face. It’s called freedom of movement. You’re harassing and being intolerant which is ironic because you say you are so tolerant.” Watch (he hurls this accusation starting at about the 0:53 mark):

Meanwhile,

Later at the Los Banos stop – attended by seven supporters – a tour security guard told us on-camera that her exit was pre-scheduled; however, this conflicts with other reports we received on the ground. Sources close to the tour had no idea that Karyme had even left. The guard’s statement would be more believable coming from a more reliable source. The security guard has been extremely hostile to us throughout the tour.

Fiorina/Vota Tus Valores supporters

There were also those with pro-equality views

Minutes after issuing the statement, he apologized (off-camera) to our videographer Anthony for stepping on his foot while he was attempting to film an exchange between Alfonso and a counter-protester in San Jose. He said that it was unintentional because he has an artificial leg. Perhaps this is true, but it doesn’t explain why he intentionally bumped Anthony twice with force on two separate occasions prior to the incident.

We previously opted not to report this information, but now that the guard has chosen to give a conflicting on-the-record account with respect to Karyme’s departure, we feel that the facts go to his credibility.

Now, you be the judge, did I cross the line with Karyme? Did Adam’s earlier post on her participation in San Francisco Pride strike some sort of nerve with Karyme, the Vota Tus Valores organizers or the National Organization for Marriage?

We can only speculate because Alfonso refuses to comment to us about anything.

165 Comments Leave a Comment

so am i

Sooo the only people who actually knew about it and chose to attend in Fresno were myself, James, and the awesome dancing Boxer lady?

That actually doesn't surprise me, since there's been no press whatsoever here. I'd figured that they'd brought in some church group or something, but I had no idea it was such a puppet show.

Did they not know before that she had been Pride Queen?

Scribing.

Meetings over! (finally) Now time to catch up on the way home. Wish I drove in today…

This whole thing just amazes me.

What happened to Day 3? Not complaining, because I think you guys are heros, but just wondering.

It does concern me, though, that the militant anti-gay pressure group NOM keeps trying to thwart freedom of the press on the first Hate Tour and now on this one. All the while complaining about how we are somehow "intolerant" for supporting our beloved nation's right to freedom of the press. They remind me of communist East Germany where freedom of the press only applied to one side. Is that really the kind of situation Fiorina would support in the US?

Dearly beloved P8TT folks:

If you need help on the ground, please contact the nearest Unitarian Universalist church: http://www.uua.org or http://www.standingonthesideoflove.org

Very sad, another suicide this week:

America In CRISIS! A 3rd Teenage Boy Dies This Week! 5th Death From Suicide In Less Than Three Weeks!

Billy Lucas, Asher Brown, Seth Walsh, Tyler Clementi and now Raymond Chase, 19, from Monticello, New York.

We have just lost a 5th young soul this week – that we know of – who is either gay or the victim or gay bullying. The 5th suicide in less than three weeks and the 3rd death just this week alone!

It is just devastating for us to report that we have learned that Raymond Chase, an openly gay sophomore at Johnson and Wales University in Providence, Rhode Island , studying culinary arts committed suicide on Wednesday, several students have informed us.

The 19 year old is believed to have hung himself in his dormitory.

Ronald Martel, Ph.D., Vice President of Student Affairs and Dean of Students, sent the following email to students on Thursday.

More: http://perezhilton.com/2010-09-30-suicide_crisis_…

BTW, Standing on the Side of Love (sponsored by the Unitarian Universalist church) is covering the "It Gets Better" project: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mx_I-byng78

& I would like to add….its so hilariously entertaining that the Voto bus tour has to bus people in to be preached to….um …..by the Vota Bus Tour…..

so they are taking a bus to meet people on a bus to talk about the bus….with all this busing their carbon foot print is sky rocketing….our poor environment may not be able to sustain the immense amount of hot air coming out of NOM's as….I mean Vota Bus exhaust pipes….. ; ) …Ronnie

P.S. Hola Thomas & Hola Louis

Why did she get back in the Vota Bus after the Fresno stop and travel 27.3 miles north (approximately 32 minutes) to Madera before getting into the gray Jeep which was already present at the Fresno stop to begin with?

They had to follow proper deprograming protocol and remove the electronic chips from her brain.

Please, I'm begging anyone suffering right now and thinking to end it all… contact a Unitarian church, or the Quakers, or a United Church of Christ or The Trevor Project or a suicide hotline! You, every single one of you, are precious to us. You are loved, you are valuable, you are a gift to the world. We need you. We care. Don't leave us. Please.

Ronnie everything you just said made my night just a little bit better!

And it's seriously weird that they bus in their own audience. Of course, that's the only way they're going to get one since they apparently didn't bother with things like press releases or permits or what have you.

whoops. That should be: http://www.standingonthesideoflove.org/blog/for-t…

NOM has a new video up??
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Muksvf0AM8

And here's the whole song by OK GO used in the first clip of the SSL article: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJKythlXAIY

Does anyone else get the distinct felling that Thomas, the Vota Tus Valores organizer, is a player for our team??

So glad I wasn't drinking when I read that…

Or maybe you mean to say 'via con dios' to Ms. Lozano?

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Absolutely.

Yup. Closet case.

Hmmm….is our president going to address this firmly? I was thinking it was okay for him to wait till his second term before he took any real action for LGTB rights…but now there's an awful lot of blood in the streets.

LOL..Andrew…I was going to say that, initially, but I decided to go with the simple "Hola"…… ; ) …Ronnie

Someone should keep in touch with him and not out him publicly, but let him know there's a better life out there for him than what he's bearing now.

Ah, come on. Just 'cause he's a slender prettyboy with a tenor voice and great hair…. he does kinda fit a certain stereotype, doesn't he?

Having spoken passionately and at length that a person's spot on the Kinsey scale matters about as much as which hand they write with, I'm not going to speculate about his tastes. But I wonder if kinda fitting that stereotype has had any influence on the choices he's made in his life so far.

Sooooooo, the bus made it to ALL the stops today? Albeit late. But then, they brought their own audience with them so they've gotta be feeling not quite so useless by now.

So now I will tell you, I've watched Karyme several times on her soaps, and although she's not the best, she's not bad. No, I don't speak spanish, but my best friend speaks very little english, and I watch the soaps with her. I may not speak or understand the language, but I can interpet body language. And then of course, Irma laughs at me. Ahh well, such is life.

Personally, I think my interpetation is far better than the actual one. But then, I wouldn't know, would I?

Bo (and Mom says Hi to everyone.}

Subbing 2, Electric Boogaloo.

Perhaps she has family or friends in Madera?

I still think this bus (with its candidate advocacy signage) is in violation of their 501(c)3. NOM is a non-profit, right? Non-profits can't advocate for politicians. Says so, right in the law. The IRS might take an interest, especially with all this photographic evidence.

Of course if they're some other sort of fundraising corp, disregard this attempt to cause trouble. Over and out.

Some of her friends may not be answering her calls, now…so I hope she wasn't counting on them for a ride.

Will be interesting if she makes a public statement about the tour.

That would make sense. Daniel Morales mentioned her twitter announcement at 2:43, which was before they arrived at the Fresno stop, so it must have been planned that way before they hit town.

Or perhaps she has a surprise appearance planned somewhere, and just stayed on the bus because it was more comfortable. Madera is the closest town on 99 to the 152 junction so that's where they'd part ways if she was continuing North to, say Sacramento.

I would rate the probability at 87.6 percent.

Either that or NOM heard about her "secret" twitter through us and asked her to leave.

And if she makes a public statement about what happened, I'm sure there's a clause in her contract that states something like: "If you should happen to figure out, through no fault of ours, but those butinski P8TT's, what we're REALLY up too, and then tell, we sustain the right to hold your paycheck for an unspecified amount of time."

Shuuuush! We don't want to blow his cover.

Woot I'm in one of the photos in my legalize gay shirt with the rainbow flag… tho it was in Merced and not Fresno

I am totally confused by this 'tour'. They drive around, stop and eat, and then drive around some more. Well…today they drove around, stop and met with a church group that was also driving around (?), then drove around some more, and then stopped and met with that same church group…again…

And they get mad at being filmed doing this….

They are blatantly patronizing the Spanish-speaking community in CA. Do they honestly think that our CA Hispanics are so simplistic that they will fall for anything they are told as long as it's in Spanish?

How insulting!

Methinks the lady may be on the down low.

Sorry LLB, but all I see is a bunch of middle-aged mostly overweight men with wedding rings ogling at the pretty washed up soap star. Their little communal prayer was only asking for guidance and growth, not embracing "Carly" or a mention of the NOM agenda.

Voto de nuestros testículos, perhaps.

Dollars to ~~Donuts~~ Chorros, Alfonso (can we please just call me 'Al' from now on, as in Peg Bundy?) stumbled upon this innocent gathering and saw at last an opportunity for some footage that didn't include an overwhelming majority of equality supporters. Which would explain why the hate bus (a.k.a. Priscilla, Queen of the Central Valley) isn't in any of the shots.

Personally, I think Karyme got tired of the "harassment". She signed on for this for the PR and photo-ops … not to be consistently questioned on her "values". I think after Arisha's questions, she simply opted out — I can't take it anymore, guys — I'm gone!

As an aside… the suicides are heartbreaking, and somehow the Trevor Project needs to be more widely publicized. I mean, it needs to FEATURED on a media outlet with a wide, national audience. The death of poor Tyler is on the front pages. Now is the time to push for national recognition of this tragic trend among gay youth.

I know I am speaking to the choir. But I just want to be heard. That is all.

By the way, I would like to stand up and be counted as one of the most fervent straight supporters of gay rights that I have ever known. My friends tell me it isn't their problem – or my problem — but my attitude is that, until all Americans have equal rights, none do. I have been married — twice! — and divorced — twice! — (cue sardonic laughter) — I would be the first to say that marriage is what the married make it. And I think same-sex couples will make marriage a more sacred and special institution, as it always should have been.

Just my two cents.

Oh, and one more thing — not to clog the blog (so to speak!) I just got off work — I grew up as one of those liberal little girls who looked proudly at her country and thought – Wow! we used to discriminate against women, and now they have equal rights! Wow! we used to discriminate against blacks, and now they have equal rights! Our generation is so enlightened, we are the embodiment of American values!

One of the most tragic losses of childhood is that naivete… if only we could all have remained children with such idealistic American values. Reality is much meaner. And I have grown to realize that discrimination is alive and well, today, in my backyard.

On the other hand, I've realized that we are here to witness, if not take part in, the historic moment when LGBT people gained their equal rights. Some, like David Boies and Ted Olson, the Courage Campaign, and maybe Arisha! will have their names enshrined as pioneers in this effort…. I just count myself lucky to be a witness. In a hundred years, our progeny will look back on this time and marvel at the miracle that has been wrought here — the wrongs that have been righted — the rights that have finally been recognized — and the people that have suffered in the interim, like poor Tyler.

Wow! To be alive in such an age. God bless and keep us all.

And a nice two cents. I agree – this is something that DOES affect us all. It is up to all of us to fight injustice whenever and wherever we encounter it. xoxo

Bless you, Tracy. Thank you for adding your voice to the choir. There is no such thing as too much harmony.

I suspect there are many, many more like you in the straight community who lack your bravery to speak up.

Then again, we always have Arisha. Who, if there is a God, should get a Pulitzer — if not a Nobel Peace Prize — for her work on this (seemingly endless) project. Not only on behalf of LGBT's but for all of us.

Anyone going to be at the Santa Cruz stop tomorrow? I'm planning on being there, but don't have materials (or time unfortunately), to make a protest sign.

for those of you wondering.. This is Karyme Lozano singing at the 2008 San Francisco Pride at the Steamworks Stage (not joke).

The flyers advertising her performance were sponsored by manhunt.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_wRf9l4wDs&fe…

AYE! KARYME!!! Looks like you've been naughty.

[youtube

This must have been before her conversion.

Thank you, Brad, for your comment here — I agree that Arisha deserves special recognition for the part she has played, and — God willing — she will get that recognition. And to elaborate on my feelings about marriage, and I've said this before, too… Those who speak out against Same-Sex Marriage are speaking out against Marriage. They are cheapening something that should be beautiful and universal, and turning it into an elitist institution that freely discriminates with the sanction of the government.

To my mind, that is an affront to the values espoused by God, Jesus AND those espoused by the principles enshrined in the United States constitution. It is shameful, destructive, divisive, and altogether repulsive!!

!!!!!

God created everyone by hand, to be unique, and special in his or her own way. He does not make mistakes and we were all made in his image, so they say. My personal opinion is that Love is the human embodiment of God, and Love never discriminates. Period. End of story.

Hi Rob,

The Tracker team will be there =0)

Make sure to say hi when you see us.

Thanks,
Ant

That snake gets to like third base with her! Not to mention the what looks to be a married man under the table.

How is she going to explain this to her daughter when she gets older? If I were her I would be more worried about explaining this.

I think she's going to have a hard time explaining to her daughter what she was doing touring with the hate-mobile.

Just and FYI she is still reading (Hi Karyme!). She has been going crazy on twitter for like HOURS! Maybe she will answer our questions now?

Reminds me of Madonna back when she was pissing people off all over the place.

I suspect she's going to have a hard time explaining a lot of things to her daughter, starting with "who's your daddy?".

Aw, damn. Kate must have infected me with the reply button cooties.

Agree completely, Tracy.

Funny how those most dramatically pious are the first to hurl judgment and condemnation at others they perceive to be unsaved or unworthy. If they are truly tight with their God or Gods, why do they care?

Same goes for the sexuality or gender identity of others. If one is so secure in one's identity, why defame — or assault — others for theirs?

The answer in both is usually the same: because the aggressor is so deeply insecure with their own identity(ies) that lashing out is the only alternative. And hate, like misery, loves company.

And tax-exempt bus tours.

Um Daniel,

Would it or would it not be appropriate to explain to the viewers at home what sort of establishment "Steamworks" is?

Just sayin'…

From Karyme Lozano's twitter:

"u just don't getlt.u just hear what u want to hear.l love my gay frlends…"

Karyme, you don't seem to love them enough to let them marry the person they choose. Why is that?

You know, BradK, your insight about the motivations of the "pious" is interesting. But I think I must disagree …. I believe they lash out — not due to insecurity, i.e., they seem so very secure in their beliefs — but due to a very (tragically) flawed view of God and God's will.

I think they are convinced that they are right in God's eyes. That is terribly sad, because there is no legitimate God, in my opinion, that would create a people having a damnable characteristic according to the Bible (e.g., homosexuality) for the sole purpose of sending them to Hell when they succomb to that characteristic.

I may be wrong. And their God may condemn me. But I will never submit to any God that is so capricious in his allocation of Love to his people. I would sooner go to Hell than submit to such a prejudicial God that would so capriciously create a group of people that were condemned to suffer in silence throughout their lives. No! I would welcome Hell before I would yield to such a God.

Many might say that I deserve to be consigned to Hell. But my position is solid. I believe in a God who loves every human being He created, and He expects only that they exemplify the Love that He created and ever embodies — no matter in what way they exemplify it….

& we should believe her why?….Because she says so?….hahahahaha…La chica esta muy loca….she has alined herself with a Fascist hate group (NOM) that is out to destroy & control the personal lives of everyone who will not bow down to them…I mean their religious beliefs & definitions…..her credibility is shot…

Hey Lazano……Listen chica…..es muy estupido…..Grow up & take care of your daughter & your own miserable life instead of putting you nose where it doesn't belong.. i.e. the personal lives of LGBT Norteamericano's….ok chica?…. . ; ) …Ronnie

But Ronnie, God's on her side, remember? Karyme Lozano said so! Clearly, we've already lost and anything that looks good for equality is just God being a bastard, like He did with Job, except He actually liked Job.

LOL…."God's" a bastard….well we know Jesus was….Ooooooohhhhh….Bastardooooo…(Its ok, I can call him that…card carrying bastardo right here…. & DAMN PROUD OF IT…..BASTARDOS RULE ALL!!!!)…….ROFL… X) …Ronnie

quick update on the Karyme vanishing. This afternoon, national TV networks asked her about her involvement in the anti-gay campaign (NOM). She was ordered not to give any interviews about gays and focus only on abortion.

MegaTV told her that they were going live with the story "From gay pride queen to enemy of the lgbt community" I will update a facebook snapshot of their announcement. Univision Radio and W Radio also been talking about the NOM funding and I guess the gay issue was becoming too much of a distraction.

MegaTV called her at 2:00 PM W radio called me at 3PM and soon after that she was gone!

Thanks you guys for the hard work.

It's hard for me to tell between the twitter-speak and Ms. Lozano getting kinda worked up and incoherent, but I think she implied that her gay friends don't want gay marriage. She has more credibility in saying this than anyone else I've heard it from, because I can actually believe that she has (or at least had) gay friends.

That claim always reminds me of an interview about women driving in Saudi Arabia. When asked why it's illegal, the guy from the Saudi government said "They don't want to drive." He was unable to explain why women who don't want to drive are frequently arrested for the crime of driving while female.

See, I don't want to drive. You can tell, because of the way I sold my car and never replaced it. I've never felt a need to stop anyone else from driving, though, even though other people driving pose a real potential threat to my life and safety.

Wow, I think her public image just got whiplash

scribin

I wouldn’t underestimate the simple fact that campaigning is tough work and as a celebrity she would much rather be surrounded by people who adore her no matter what she does.

I repeat ….ay dios mio……<3….Ronnie

I love how the revisionists keep trying to say that we are the ones who are changing the truth and cannot tell the truth. Another instance of “Methinks the lady doth protest too much.”

Tracy, you're on solid theological and Biblical ground here. I'd elaborate but my daughter just woke up… God Bless.

Subscribing. I'll never get caught up . Oh wait… there's a weekend!

In light of NOM's use of a trademarked name, and me not wanting the name of something so close to my hometown of Houston, I emailed the people at Astroturf about this blog, http://nomblog.com/1949/
Their reply:
"Andy,
Take a look at this website to determine if your team has any issues with the use of the AstroTurf name.

Christopher, Thank you for passing this along. We appreciate it. "

Keep watching this blog post.

My guess?

She got on the bus, after running away from our Teriffic Tour Trackers. Alfonso got on the bus and immediately started berating her for even talking to us at all. The argument continued for 27.3 miles, at which point she said "Let me off this bus!" (or maybe Alfonso said "get off my bus!") and they pulled over and let her go.

And I don't want to get married. But I absolutely insist on the right for everyone (even for me, who chooses not to) to be able to have that option. Jonathan, I guess that means in some near future, I'll have a driver's license and you'll have a marriage license, and we'll both celebrate YOURS.

PS – please keep those reply button cooties; I am hoping to be without them for a while.

This "tour" has now actually begun spinning off sub-stories — can it keep getting better like this? We're going to need a list of characters and plots at this rate. Too funny! Well, I guess she has finally achieved a bit of fame for herself — but it's not going to be the kind she wants. Keep us posted, Daniel!

PS — Who at P8TT is going to play Karyme's part in the upcoming movie? Maybe Mark can enlist one of his Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence to take this role? Anonygrl, start your video camera!

Merit badge here, Ann!

Please have a little thought for Tyle Clementi formerly of New Jersey.
I'm very upset really.
It's on CBS news New York
"Additional Charges In Rutgers Spy Scam Saga Possible"
you might check the comments so you'll know the idiots you're up against.
Thank you.

I want to encourage folks who can go to the balance of the tour stops to take Bo's suggestion and contact the Unitarian churches local to those towns and notify them of this Hate Tour. (Great idea, Bo & Mom!) Also, a quick call to a couple of local PFLAG members will no doubt bring in scads of those fabulous PFLAG parents. And they usually have signs and appropriate gear always at the ready. Google PFLAG and the town in question (or ones nearby), and you'll no doubt come up with several numbers right off the bat. This is something both groups would love to attend, but the likelihood of them even hearing about it without some help is very, very slight, given what we've seen of the Hate Tour's publicity and promotion. (Heck, now we're even having to get attendees for them. Don't they know how to organize at all???)

Hmmmm……. I just figured out that their "day of rest" on the bus schedule listed for Sunday may well mean that they'll be driving that billboard bus to some Hispanic churches that day. But by not posting any announced "stops," they can then claim to the IRS that they weren't merging church and state in the process…….

All of this is going into the mix for "BUS – The Movie!"

I need to see some video of Alfonso in action (if he ever has anyone to speak to) so I can start to get his character in the story… and I wonder if, someday, there might be a secret bus driver to bus driver hookup between Thomas and Louis. Hmmmm…

I would add to this excellent list: Metropolitan Community Church.

And then say "ditto" to everything else Tomato said.

Love,
Fiona

Heh. A friend and I, under the influence of altitude sickness and strong margaritas, watched telenovelas all night in Albuquerque once, making up our own dialogue. I am pretty sure ours was better, given what little Spanish I remember from my school days.

Love,
Fiona

But Tus Valores is a 501c(4), according to their website … so I think the rules are vastly different.

Love,
Fiona

I live in Ridgewood, NJ, Tyler's hometown. I can practically see the GW Bridge from my house. I am devastated about this story. Such a brilliant, kind young man. No one had anything bad to say about him. My heart goes out to his family. I get so discouraged sometimes. I look to the younger generation to finally get it right about homosexuality. It seems we still have so much farther to go.

One of the reasons the San Mateo stop was almost boring was that UUs were present. I was wearing my Standing on the Side of Love T-Shirt, with the name of my church, the UU Fellowship of Redwood City on the back. We didn't shout, we talked. The tour stop ended with a handshake. A member of the Palo Alto UU church took a photo of both the discussion and the handshake.

Remember, these people are largely hired staff. They were hired for their appearance, not their political views. Most are not immune to reason.

Here is the Facebook screenshot. National TV reporting on Karyme Loszano's anti-gay crusade. None of the networks were interested on covering before now everyone wants to talk to Karyme about it and your pictures and videos have been very enlightening to say the least.

http://besetu.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/papa…

Daniel, can you help out those of us here who are linguistically challenged and translate? Thanks!

Correct.

From Wikipedia:

501(c)(4) organizations are generally civic leagues and other corporations operated exclusively for the promotion of social welfare, or local associations of employees with membership limited to a designated company or people in a particular municipality or neighborhood, and with net earnings devoted exclusively to charitable, educational, or recreational purposes.[19] Unlike 501(c)(3) organizations, 501(c)(4) organizations may lobby for legislation; they may also participate in political campaigns and elections, as long as campaigning is not the organization's primary purpose.[20]

Contributions to 501(c)(4) organizations are not deductible as charitable contributions. 501(c)(4) organizations are not required to disclose their donors publicly.[21] This aspect of the law has led to extensive use of the 501(c)(4) provisions for organizations that are actively involved in lobbying, and has become controversial.[22]

The tax exemption for 501(c)(4) organizations applies to most of their operations, but contributions may be subject to gift tax, and income spent on political activities – generally the advocacy of a particular candidate in an election – is taxable.[23]

The bolding is mine, and worth noting. Organizations with this tax exempt status may not PRIMARILY be lobbying organizations. So, by spending a BUTT load of money on bus tours, which are "educatonal" or "promoting social welfare" or somesuch nonsense, they prove that they are not just a lobbying organization. Thus, they do not CARE if no one ever hears the message, as long as they have reciepts for each city they said they would go to, and for the big, expensive bus, and for hotel rooms for the entire crew.

It is possible that the people ON the bus are unaware that they are being used in this fashion. Might be interesting to bring it to their attention… they may think that they were actually brought on board to do more than be a beard for NOM and The Susan B Anthony List. I wonder how they would feel if they knew that their success or failure was of absolutely no concern to their sponsors, that they are just out there to spend money so that NOM can push its election agenda in Maine and Iowa and…?

I wonder how the Latino community would feel about that? I wonder how Karyme would feel, finding out that NOM didn't so much put her ON the bus as throw her under it?

… Anonygrl's shoulders sag, and her head drops. The bouquet of roses she was bringing to Kate drag on the ground as she sadly turns away and heads back to the store to return the engagement ring…

Wowzer, Anonygrl, I might just change my mind……

Another thought about why she may have left the tour… In one of the videos they say something like, "Enough with the paparazzi". I wonder if they think we're following their star.

Maybe they thought it was their TV star who was creating all this following, so get rid of the star and P8TT will go away. Little do they know how little we care about their TV star.

We're on you like glue, hermanos.

Big hugs Catherine.

I'll answer this one, for our non-local viewers.

Steamworks is, as far as I know, the last remaining gay bathhouse in the Bay Area.

So here's Karyme two years ago: singing and dancing at a gay pride event on a stage sponsored by a gay bathhouse.

Classy.

Google translation:

paparazzi today in the case relating to besil dra ORT took pole shift, karime lozano, to be queen of the gay community, now raging against them, shakira faces serious problems for a sexual harassment scandal, Doimeadiós respond if he stays or if leaves, and 2 poster actresses are with us in the studio.

The show was announcing the days topics.. second on the list:

Karyme Lozano – former Gay Pride Queen now fighting against them!!

Kate and anonygrl:

Don't be sad. You can still get a DP, or a CU, or just live together. Marriage is just a name. You don't need that.

Can't you just take what you're given and leave the rest of us alone?

*snark*

Anonygrl:

One small change I'd suggest to the title:

BUSt – The Movie

Apparently she really is trying to focus on the abortion issue…to the extent that it makes her look illogical!

She spends a long tweet saying how we're not respecting her views and those of her gay friends, then ends with,

"I support life!"

Um, dear Karyme, how is that comment at all related?

Anonygrl — There is a good video of Alfonso being aggressive on an earlier thread, the one with the guy and the megaphone on the opening still.

Nope!

For me its all or nuthin'. Is it all or nuthin' for you?

Ten points to anyone who can name not only the show it comes from, but who sings it.

I'll watch when I get home. Stupid state of New York, blocking videos from their stupid computers at my stupid job, which I better get back to before my stupid boss catches me.

If the tour is scouting locations & only showing up when they see a crowd of supporters, how about this…

Pro-Equality forces disguise themselves in drab clothing. They bring signs that say "Pro Marriage, Pro Family" and congregate at a planned tour stop. When the bus stops and the NOMbies get off the bus, the pro-equality folks take off their drab shirts to reveal the brightly colored shirts underneath, and take the pieces of cardboard which were covering the word "Equality" off their signs.

Now we have dozens of brightly-clad people holding signs that say "Pro Marriage Equality, Pro Family" — and NOMbies running off in a panic.

Oklahoma! Will sing to Annie.

Thank you Reverend – I appreciate you taking the time to tell me that!

I actually dreamt this very thing last night!

Damn. Reply button cooties again. Ann is going to take my merit badge back.

Ten points for you, Kathleen! Well done!

Thank you Daniel.

Good thing They have our Intrepid Trackers following them around, or They'd have no publicity at all.

Gladly take the points – 'cause I'm just a girl who can't say no.

Thanks for the awesome coverage guys!!! BTW I might have missed it but are we planning any counter demonstration in Los Angeles?

"Vaya con dios" = "go with God"

"Via con dios" = "the way/road with God."

I think "Hit the road, doll …" works just fine.

Love,
Fiona

Contact your local Metropolitan Community Church as well. I wish I had thought to do that with the San Jose stop, as I attend MCC San Jose.

Love,
Fiona

Yes, Latino Equality Alliance has a facebook event for the counter demostration
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=1801088&amp…

NOOOOO! Had the PRIDE center at University of the Pacific known in Stockton, there would have been dozens of people (including MANY latinos/as) out counter protesting! They have been doing great things in Stockton.

Good job, Chris! Merit badges for Eternal Vigilance and Whistle Blowing are hereby awarded. Please wear them with pride!

Was good meeting the Tracker team this morning!

Short report: SEIU was there with roughly 15 people, plus several more unaffiliated people. Bus (of course) showed up about 15 minutes late–and once again had trouble making the turn into the venue, blocking traffic for a minute or two as they repeatedly backed up and repositioned themselves.
Once the bus got parked and the OmNomNomers got out, chants of "si se puede" drowned out Alfonso's speech. Alfonso closed with a smug face and self-serving "I know deep in your hearts, you'll be voting for Carly. We'll pray for you."
I didn't see anyone there to support Tus Valores other than their own staff.

Merit badges are not taken back once awarded. Don't make me make an exception.

Woohoo. I figured if PPM could call shenanigans, so could I .
Proud to be an Ally.

practicing here with reply button so I don't let Ann down…

As somebody who was seemingly a friend of our community, we can only hope that she comes to realize how NOM is using her and comes to regret her association with them. In the meatime, here are the questions I would like to ask her:

Do you think gay people are perverts?

Do you think your gay friends shouldn't find another person to love and share their lives with? Do you think they would be better off living their lives alone?

How do your gay friends feel about your new views about them?

Ignorance admittance here…. what is SEIU?

Do you suppose Thomas (Hi Thomas!) even has that special license to drive that thing with multiple folks aboard?

Kate, it's the Service Employees International Union (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Service_Employees_International_Union).

Good job, Kate.

Thank you, Rob. I'm delighted to see that Union members are continuing to show up. Did they have Boxer signs?

No Boxer signs that I saw, but signs opposing "Buy-It-Now Meg" and handwritten signs about equality, immigrations issues, and union concerns.

Arisha Michelle Hatch, it's nice to have you back. I really think your future in broadcast journalsim is bright. You can make the most awful stuff that you're reporting on palatable. More, more, more (not awful stuff, but your reporting).

Not sure why a gay bathhouse is considered to be scandalous and naughty when in every major city in the US we have strip clubs and nudie bars for all the horned up straight boys….never understood the dbl standard there.
Just sayin…..

well whatever happens, Karyme definetly got some publicity out of this tour, she's being talked about, in the news, we're playing her videos. she's sure to tqake advantage of that.

1. she stays true to her conversion and starts singing Christian songs, maybe even a backup choir

2. she realizes her base of supporters, and comes back to us as an ally, either way, she's got publicity.

wait and see

OMG. My first lover had boas (snakes, not fashion accessories), and we never did that with them! (Well, there was the time the power went out in her house, and we had to put them in pillowcases on our bellies in bed at night to keep them alive, but that was strictly for science.)

Amen. Arisha, you come across as the only sane one in the "conversation."

A little backsliding just gives you reason to practice, is all.

"quick update on the Karyme vanishing. This afternoon, national TV networks asked her about her involvement in the anti-gay campaign (NOM)."

AWESOME !!

This story is getting more and more coverage in the mainstream press and on TV out here in California. As is the whole issue of anti-bullying legislation and LGBT Teen suicides.

And don't forget to contact your local LGBT community center, if there is one in the area.

"Good thing They have our Intrepid Trackers following them around, or They’d have no publicity at all."

I'm starting to wonder if that's the way they want it. They really seem almost hostile towards publicity, for example not speaking to the only press that's consistently covering them. Or skipping stops that have a large opposition presence.

I'm seriously beginning to wonder if maybe there's something outright illegal going on, and they know it.

Mark, I'm betting that the image of a "Gay Bathhouse" is something along the lines of an "Asian Massage Parlour".

Wow!! Finally got around to watching this. It explains a lot of things. Especially her conversion to not only christianity but to abstinance.
When you're actually making a video like this, you really don't realize what the final product is going to portray, yeah you get the general gist of it and it seemed like a good idea at the time, but boy, when you watch it later. Especially with a family member (probably disapproving) it's a whole other story.
I truly feel sorry for her now.

Fiorina throws Meg under the bus
CEO Watch Video: Carly Fiorina Says Employers Like Meg Whitman Who Knowingly Hire Undocumented Immigrants Should Go to Jail
September 30, 2010 By clarklee
Watch the video here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6cyiWxUjiM

Transcript of the video:

Question from Ch. 10 in Sacramento: “There was one viewer who asked the question, ‘Would you imprison employers who knowingly hired illegal immigrants?’”

Carly Fiorina: “Well, sure. If an employer is knowingly breaking the law, of course, they need to be punished to the fullest extent of the law. Absolutely.”

Question from the San Francisco Chronicle editor board: “What do we do about people who are hiring illegal immigrants for their businesses or their own homes?”

Carly Fiorina: “Well, that’s wrong, obviously. People who knowingly hire illegal immigrants are breaking the law, and they should be punished.”

###

CEO Watch is a project of the Los Angeles County Democratic Party that explores the records of Republican candidates who brag about their business credentials as qualifications for seeking public office. Not authorized by any federal candidate or committee.

I think an awful lot of farmers here in the North State and several I know in the South State are changing their votes about now.

Ouch

I can't believe it, but I'm going to cheer Carly since this definitely seems to be a shot at Meg. I'm still not giving her my voto though, Alfonso. (Hi Thomas!)

Does anyone here actually speak Spanish? My husband from Colombia told me that "vota tus valores" is actually incorrect grammatically. He said that it SHOULD be "Vota POR tus Valores" He ALSO told me when I said the name that Vota is pronounced identically in Spanish as Bota, which means to throw away. I found that rather humorous. Maybe THAT is why people are not attending. The Spanish speaking population in California thinks the tour is asking them to throw away their values!

You're right, Dave. We've been exploring their grammatical errors and soft insults for several threads now.

Ah, excellent, thank you ladies. Though I wonder how the IRS determines what the "primary purpose" is.

Because it seems to me that NOM's primary purpose IS lobbying.

Elizabeth, the bus of failure is not just a NOM project, it's a project of Tus Valores, which is, I think, sponsored by NOM and Susan B. Anthony List (I really hate that they are using Susan B. Anthony's name this way) and others.

Elizabeth Oakes:

"Because it seems to me that NOM’s primary purpose IS lobbying."

No, no, Elizabeth NOM's primary purpose is fundraising. You see the lobbying is simply a means to that end!

Thanks. I wish I had time to read ALL of the threads to follow this. But time constraints (like any other married couple have) doesn't lend itself to following all the threads sometimes. Oh wait, I forgot, I am not married; I simply have a roommate.

It still seems very fishy, and as someone pointed out on this thread: doesn't seem like the Busload of Failness Tour is really trying very hard to promote themselves, so you have to wonder if it's just about some kind of write-off, or they just really wanted to buy a bus or something.

My guess would be media…get away from the stop where people might see

That is a very compassionate response. I agree with you, but curious where you find that compassion. It can be so tempting to be as nasty to them as they are to us.

[...] The National Organization for Marriage sponsored Vota Tus Valores tour picked up some support yesterday. They had Latinos there to support Carly Fiorina and her anti-gay values in Stocton and in Modesto and in Fresno. Too bad they were all the same people just moving with them from stop to stop. (Courage Campaign) [...]

Brad and Tracy–

I think you are both right, as the "they" is made up of many individuals with varying motivations. Some can't back their claims, know it, and are scared of questions. So they lash out to stop all conversations.

Others are convinced they are in the right, and the ends justify the means.

Other people have other motivations. I know someone who believes that everyone, deep inside, knows that he is right about God's will and will admit as much if they are just bullied hard enough.

Still others who identify as Christian or another religion believe strongly that their faith means that all are equal and all deserve rights and love and care.

I think this is because religion is what a person makes of it. If they are a fearful person they will find reasons to fear. If they are a bully, they will find reasons to bully. If they are compassionate, they will find reasons to be compassionate.

Hear! Hear!

No, no, no! The supporters came to them! Their site says so!

Photos: Stockton welcomes the VotaBus!

Many thanks to all our great supporters who greeted us at our first stop this morning in Stockton, CA! Here are a couple photos I managed to snap – more on the way, and some videos too!

crud, photos got stripped out . . . the post itself: Photos: Stockton welcomes the VotaBus!

As always, please, no commenting.

^_^

we ask for tolerance and we give zerooo tolerance to people that think in a different way! The day we respect others we will be respected too, the day we give tolerance, we will receive tolerance. You asked questions and she answered,and I think she did in an honest way,and all you do is mock her and start bullying her…mmm…I know gay haters, and I can see she is NOT!

What the frak is your damage Heather?…chill out…she alined her self with the National Organization for Misinformation/Murder/Malevolence …she alined herself with a Fascist hate group who have gone above & beyond speech & are in advocating controlling people's personal lives with their Fascist & selfish "Moral" Superiority" control complex….You Get over it!… : / …Ronnie

the day we stop bullying people that think in a different way than us, that day we will be taken more serioulsy!

oh! BTW, theres people bulliyng me just because I say what I think! I dont agree with all that gay community say and Ive been called anti-gay!WTF!? Meeee????Im gayyy!!! I just dont agree with everything you say and with all the hate you do pass on to people! Karime has NOT expressed one word of hatred! And you all are insulting her,just because she doesnt think like you. Get over it!

So we should just allow them to control every aspect of our lives until they decide not to anymore?….yeah…no thank you…I say who…I say when…I say where…I say how much…& sometimes why…

We are not bullying anybody…they are the ones infringing on our 1st & 14th amendment rights…they are the one imposing their fascist beliefs & defitnitions on us…well…NO MORE!!!……. >I ….Ronnie

This is not, nor has it ever been, about people who think in different ways. It’s about the rights of people to marry whom they choose.

What do you mean by “we”, Francisco? And you have an interesting definition of “bullying”; the harshest language I’ve seen here was insults. To really be a bully you have to use threats and intimidation, you have to make your target afraid of you. I could understand her being annoyed, perhaps even angry, but I haven’t seen anyone trying to induce fear. And if someone has, and I’ve missed it, that just means that one person is wrong, it does not spread their sins around to everyone.

It's not bullying to disagree with an idea or properly point out when an idea leads to bullying and worse.

All ideas are not equal. All opinions do not deserve equal respect. Some deserve derision because they are evil. There IS such a thing as a wrong opinion.

People aren't attacking her because she is different; they are attacking her stance because it is hateful.

5848165 Comments2010-10-01+03%3A19%3A19Adam+Bink Leave a Comment

1. Kathleen | September 30, 2010 at 1:31 pm

so am i
2. Jonathan H | September 30, 2010 at 1:36 pm

Sooo the only people who actually knew about it and chose to attend in Fresno were myself, James, and the awesome dancing Boxer lady?

That actually doesn't surprise me, since there's been no press whatsoever here. I'd figured that they'd brought in some church group or something, but I had no idea it was such a puppet show.
3. Kate | September 30, 2010 at 1:38 pm

Did they not know before that she had been Pride Queen?
4. Ann S. | September 30, 2010 at 1:40 pm

Scribing.
5. Alan E | September 30, 2010 at 1:46 pm

Meetings over! (finally) Now time to catch up on the way home. Wish I drove in today…
6. Tomato | September 30, 2010 at 1:54 pm

This whole thing just amazes me.
7. Michael | September 30, 2010 at 1:57 pm

What happened to Day 3? Not complaining, because I think you guys are heros, but just wondering.

It does concern me, though, that the militant anti-gay pressure group NOM keeps trying to thwart freedom of the press on the first Hate Tour and now on this one. All the while complaining about how we are somehow "intolerant" for supporting our beloved nation's right to freedom of the press. They remind me of communist East Germany where freedom of the press only applied to one side. Is that really the kind of situation Fiorina would support in the US?
8. Tomato | September 30, 2010 at 1:57 pm

Dearly beloved P8TT folks:

If you need help on the ground, please contact the nearest Unitarian Universalist church: http://www.uua.org or http://www.standingonthesideoflove.org
9. Lesbians Love Boies | September 30, 2010 at 2:00 pm

Very sad, another suicide this week:

America In CRISIS! A 3rd Teenage Boy Dies This Week! 5th Death From Suicide In Less Than Three Weeks!

Billy Lucas, Asher Brown, Seth Walsh, Tyler Clementi and now Raymond Chase, 19, from Monticello, New York.

We have just lost a 5th young soul this week – that we know of – who is either gay or the victim or gay bullying. The 5th suicide in less than three weeks and the 3rd death just this week alone!

It is just devastating for us to report that we have learned that Raymond Chase, an openly gay sophomore at Johnson and Wales University in Providence, Rhode Island , studying culinary arts committed suicide on Wednesday, several students have informed us.

The 19 year old is believed to have hung himself in his dormitory.

Ronald Martel, Ph.D., Vice President of Student Affairs and Dean of Students, sent the following email to students on Thursday.

More: http://perezhilton.com/2010-09-30-suicide_crisis_…
10. Tomato | September 30, 2010 at 2:00 pm

BTW, Standing on the Side of Love (sponsored by the Unitarian Universalist church) is covering the "It Gets Better" project: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mx_I-byng78
11. Ronnie | September 30, 2010 at 2:00 pm

& I would like to add….its so hilariously entertaining that the Voto bus tour has to bus people in to be preached to….um …..by the Vota Bus Tour…..

so they are taking a bus to meet people on a bus to talk about the bus….with all this busing their carbon foot print is sky rocketing….our poor environment may not be able to sustain the immense amount of hot air coming out of NOM's as….I mean Vota Bus exhaust pipes….. ; ) …Ronnie

P.S. Hola Thomas & Hola Louis
12. Carpool Cookie | September 30, 2010 at 2:05 pm

Why did she get back in the Vota Bus after the Fresno stop and travel 27.3 miles north (approximately 32 minutes) to Madera before getting into the gray Jeep which was already present at the Fresno stop to begin with?

They had to follow proper deprograming protocol and remove the electronic chips from her brain.
13. Tomato | September 30, 2010 at 2:06 pm

Please, I'm begging anyone suffering right now and thinking to end it all… contact a Unitarian church, or the Quakers, or a United Church of Christ or The Trevor Project or a suicide hotline! You, every single one of you, are precious to us. You are loved, you are valuable, you are a gift to the world. We need you. We care. Don't leave us. Please.
14. Jonathan H | September 30, 2010 at 2:07 pm

Ronnie everything you just said made my night just a little bit better!

And it's seriously weird that they bus in their own audience. Of course, that's the only way they're going to get one since they apparently didn't bother with things like press releases or permits or what have you.
15. Tomato | September 30, 2010 at 2:11 pm

whoops. That should be: http://www.standingonthesideoflove.org/blog/for-t…
16. Lesbians Love Boies | September 30, 2010 at 2:14 pm

NOM has a new video up??
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Muksvf0AM8
17. Tomato | September 30, 2010 at 2:18 pm

And here's the whole song by OK GO used in the first clip of the SSL article: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJKythlXAIY
18. Lora | September 30, 2010 at 2:20 pm

Does anyone else get the distinct felling that Thomas, the Vota Tus Valores organizer, is a player for our team??
19. Jonathan H | September 30, 2010 at 2:26 pm

So glad I wasn't drinking when I read that…
20. AndrewPDX | September 30, 2010 at 2:29 pm

Or maybe you mean to say 'via con dios' to Ms. Lozano?

[youtube
21. Kathleen | September 30, 2010 at 2:39 pm

Absolutely.
22. Tomato | September 30, 2010 at 2:41 pm

Yup. Closet case.
23. Carpool Cookie | September 30, 2010 at 2:42 pm

Hmmm….is our president going to address this firmly? I was thinking it was okay for him to wait till his second term before he took any real action for LGTB rights…but now there's an awful lot of blood in the streets.
24. Ronnie | September 30, 2010 at 2:43 pm

LOL..Andrew…I was going to say that, initially, but I decided to go with the simple "Hola"…… ; ) …Ronnie
25. Carpool Cookie | September 30, 2010 at 2:45 pm

Someone should keep in touch with him and not out him publicly, but let him know there's a better life out there for him than what he's bearing now.
26. Jonathan H | September 30, 2010 at 3:02 pm

Ah, come on. Just 'cause he's a slender prettyboy with a tenor voice and great hair…. he does kinda fit a certain stereotype, doesn't he?

Having spoken passionately and at length that a person's spot on the Kinsey scale matters about as much as which hand they write with, I'm not going to speculate about his tastes. But I wonder if kinda fitting that stereotype has had any influence on the choices he's made in his life so far.
27. bonobo | September 30, 2010 at 3:08 pm

Sooooooo, the bus made it to ALL the stops today? Albeit late. But then, they brought their own audience with them so they've gotta be feeling not quite so useless by now.

So now I will tell you, I've watched Karyme several times on her soaps, and although she's not the best, she's not bad. No, I don't speak spanish, but my best friend speaks very little english, and I watch the soaps with her. I may not speak or understand the language, but I can interpet body language. And then of course, Irma laughs at me. Ahh well, such is life.

Personally, I think my interpetation is far better than the actual one. But then, I wouldn't know, would I?

Bo (and Mom says Hi to everyone.}
28. JonT | September 30, 2010 at 3:21 pm

Subbing 2, Electric Boogaloo.
29. bonobo | September 30, 2010 at 3:27 pm

Perhaps she has family or friends in Madera?
30. Elizabeth Oakes | September 30, 2010 at 3:29 pm

I still think this bus (with its candidate advocacy signage) is in violation of their 501(c)3. NOM is a non-profit, right? Non-profits can't advocate for politicians. Says so, right in the law. The IRS might take an interest, especially with all this photographic evidence.

Of course if they're some other sort of fundraising corp, disregard this attempt to cause trouble. Over and out.
31. Carpool Cookie | September 30, 2010 at 3:34 pm

Some of her friends may not be answering her calls, now…so I hope she wasn't counting on them for a ride.

Will be interesting if she makes a public statement about the tour.
32. Jonathan H | September 30, 2010 at 3:37 pm

That would make sense. Daniel Morales mentioned her twitter announcement at 2:43, which was before they arrived at the Fresno stop, so it must have been planned that way before they hit town.

Or perhaps she has a surprise appearance planned somewhere, and just stayed on the bus because it was more comfortable. Madera is the closest town on 99 to the 152 junction so that's where they'd part ways if she was continuing North to, say Sacramento.
33. JonT | September 30, 2010 at 3:43 pm

I would rate the probability at 87.6 percent.
34. bonobo | September 30, 2010 at 3:43 pm

Either that or NOM heard about her "secret" twitter through us and asked her to leave.

And if she makes a public statement about what happened, I'm sure there's a clause in her contract that states something like: "If you should happen to figure out, through no fault of ours, but those butinski P8TT's, what we're REALLY up too, and then tell, we sustain the right to hold your paycheck for an unspecified amount of time."
35. BradK | September 30, 2010 at 3:53 pm

Shuuuush! We don't want to blow his cover.
36. Damion | September 30, 2010 at 3:55 pm

Woot I'm in one of the photos in my legalize gay shirt with the rainbow flag… tho it was in Merced and not Fresno
37. Linda | September 30, 2010 at 3:56 pm

I am totally confused by this 'tour'. They drive around, stop and eat, and then drive around some more. Well…today they drove around, stop and met with a church group that was also driving around (?), then drove around some more, and then stopped and met with that same church group…again…

And they get mad at being filmed doing this….

They are blatantly patronizing the Spanish-speaking community in CA. Do they honestly think that our CA Hispanics are so simplistic that they will fall for anything they are told as long as it's in Spanish?

How insulting!
38. Rich | September 30, 2010 at 3:58 pm

Methinks the lady may be on the down low.
39. BradK | September 30, 2010 at 4:05 pm

Sorry LLB, but all I see is a bunch of middle-aged mostly overweight men with wedding rings ogling at the pretty washed up soap star. Their little communal prayer was only asking for guidance and growth, not embracing "Carly" or a mention of the NOM agenda.

Voto de nuestros testículos, perhaps.

Dollars to ~~Donuts~~ Chorros, Alfonso (can we please just call me 'Al' from now on, as in Peg Bundy?) stumbled upon this innocent gathering and saw at last an opportunity for some footage that didn't include an overwhelming majority of equality supporters. Which would explain why the hate bus (a.k.a. Priscilla, Queen of the Central Valley) isn't in any of the shots.
40. Tracy | September 30, 2010 at 4:10 pm

Personally, I think Karyme got tired of the "harassment". She signed on for this for the PR and photo-ops … not to be consistently questioned on her "values". I think after Arisha's questions, she simply opted out — I can't take it anymore, guys — I'm gone!

As an aside… the suicides are heartbreaking, and somehow the Trevor Project needs to be more widely publicized. I mean, it needs to FEATURED on a media outlet with a wide, national audience. The death of poor Tyler is on the front pages. Now is the time to push for national recognition of this tragic trend among gay youth.

I know I am speaking to the choir. But I just want to be heard. That is all.
41. Tracy | September 30, 2010 at 4:13 pm

By the way, I would like to stand up and be counted as one of the most fervent straight supporters of gay rights that I have ever known. My friends tell me it isn't their problem – or my problem — but my attitude is that, until all Americans have equal rights, none do. I have been married — twice! — and divorced — twice! — (cue sardonic laughter) — I would be the first to say that marriage is what the married make it. And I think same-sex couples will make marriage a more sacred and special institution, as it always should have been.

Just my two cents.
42. Tracy | September 30, 2010 at 4:24 pm

Oh, and one more thing — not to clog the blog (so to speak!) I just got off work — I grew up as one of those liberal little girls who looked proudly at her country and thought – Wow! we used to discriminate against women, and now they have equal rights! Wow! we used to discriminate against blacks, and now they have equal rights! Our generation is so enlightened, we are the embodiment of American values!

One of the most tragic losses of childhood is that naivete… if only we could all have remained children with such idealistic American values. Reality is much meaner. And I have grown to realize that discrimination is alive and well, today, in my backyard.

On the other hand, I've realized that we are here to witness, if not take part in, the historic moment when LGBT people gained their equal rights. Some, like David Boies and Ted Olson, the Courage Campaign, and maybe Arisha! will have their names enshrined as pioneers in this effort…. I just count myself lucky to be a witness. In a hundred years, our progeny will look back on this time and marvel at the miracle that has been wrought here — the wrongs that have been righted — the rights that have finally been recognized — and the people that have suffered in the interim, like poor Tyler.

Wow! To be alive in such an age. God bless and keep us all.
43. Kathleen | September 30, 2010 at 4:26 pm

And a nice two cents. I agree – this is something that DOES affect us all. It is up to all of us to fight injustice whenever and wherever we encounter it. xoxo
44. BradK | September 30, 2010 at 4:27 pm

Bless you, Tracy. Thank you for adding your voice to the choir. There is no such thing as too much harmony.

I suspect there are many, many more like you in the straight community who lack your bravery to speak up.

Then again, we always have Arisha. Who, if there is a God, should get a Pulitzer — if not a Nobel Peace Prize — for her work on this (seemingly endless) project. Not only on behalf of LGBT's but for all of us.
45. Rob | September 30, 2010 at 4:28 pm

Anyone going to be at the Santa Cruz stop tomorrow? I'm planning on being there, but don't have materials (or time unfortunately), to make a protest sign.
46. Daniel Morales | September 30, 2010 at 4:33 pm

for those of you wondering.. This is Karyme Lozano singing at the 2008 San Francisco Pride at the Steamworks Stage (not joke).

The flyers advertising her performance were sponsored by manhunt.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_wRf9l4wDs&fe…
47. Anthony Ash | September 30, 2010 at 4:37 pm

AYE! KARYME!!! Looks like you've been naughty.

[youtube
48. Kathleen | September 30, 2010 at 4:39 pm

This must have been before her conversion.
49. Tracy | September 30, 2010 at 4:40 pm

Thank you, Brad, for your comment here — I agree that Arisha deserves special recognition for the part she has played, and — God willing — she will get that recognition. And to elaborate on my feelings about marriage, and I've said this before, too… Those who speak out against Same-Sex Marriage are speaking out against Marriage. They are cheapening something that should be beautiful and universal, and turning it into an elitist institution that freely discriminates with the sanction of the government.

To my mind, that is an affront to the values espoused by God, Jesus AND those espoused by the principles enshrined in the United States constitution. It is shameful, destructive, divisive, and altogether repulsive!!

!!!!!

God created everyone by hand, to be unique, and special in his or her own way. He does not make mistakes and we were all made in his image, so they say. My personal opinion is that Love is the human embodiment of God, and Love never discriminates. Period. End of story.
50. Anthony Ash | September 30, 2010 at 4:40 pm

Hi Rob,

The Tracker team will be there =0)

Make sure to say hi when you see us.

Thanks,
Ant
51. Anthony Ash | September 30, 2010 at 4:42 pm

That snake gets to like third base with her! Not to mention the what looks to be a married man under the table.

How is she going to explain this to her daughter when she gets older? If I were her I would be more worried about explaining this.
52. Kathleen | September 30, 2010 at 4:46 pm

I think she's going to have a hard time explaining to her daughter what she was doing touring with the hate-mobile.
53. Anthony Ash | September 30, 2010 at 4:52 pm

Just and FYI she is still reading (Hi Karyme!). She has been going crazy on twitter for like HOURS! Maybe she will answer our questions now?
54. Jonathan H | September 30, 2010 at 4:57 pm

Reminds me of Madonna back when she was pissing people off all over the place.
55. BradK | September 30, 2010 at 4:59 pm

I suspect she's going to have a hard time explaining a lot of things to her daughter, starting with "who's your daddy?".
56. Jonathan H | September 30, 2010 at 4:59 pm

Aw, damn. Kate must have infected me with the reply button cooties.
57. BradK | September 30, 2010 at 5:05 pm

Agree completely, Tracy.

Funny how those most dramatically pious are the first to hurl judgment and condemnation at others they perceive to be unsaved or unworthy. If they are truly tight with their God or Gods, why do they care?

Same goes for the sexuality or gender identity of others. If one is so secure in one's identity, why defame — or assault — others for theirs?

The answer in both is usually the same: because the aggressor is so deeply insecure with their own identity(ies) that lashing out is the only alternative. And hate, like misery, loves company.

And tax-exempt bus tours.
58. BradK | September 30, 2010 at 5:08 pm

Um Daniel,

Would it or would it not be appropriate to explain to the viewers at home what sort of establishment "Steamworks" is?

Just sayin'…
59. Jonathan H | September 30, 2010 at 5:09 pm

From Karyme Lozano's twitter:

"u just don't getlt.u just hear what u want to hear.l love my gay frlends…"

Karyme, you don't seem to love them enough to let them marry the person they choose. Why is that?
60. Tracy | September 30, 2010 at 5:33 pm

You know, BradK, your insight about the motivations of the "pious" is interesting. But I think I must disagree …. I believe they lash out — not due to insecurity, i.e., they seem so very secure in their beliefs — but due to a very (tragically) flawed view of God and God's will.

I think they are convinced that they are right in God's eyes. That is terribly sad, because there is no legitimate God, in my opinion, that would create a people having a damnable characteristic according to the Bible (e.g., homosexuality) for the sole purpose of sending them to Hell when they succomb to that characteristic.

I may be wrong. And their God may condemn me. But I will never submit to any God that is so capricious in his allocation of Love to his people. I would sooner go to Hell than submit to such a prejudicial God that would so capriciously create a group of people that were condemned to suffer in silence throughout their lives. No! I would welcome Hell before I would yield to such a God.

Many might say that I deserve to be consigned to Hell. But my position is solid. I believe in a God who loves every human being He created, and He expects only that they exemplify the Love that He created and ever embodies — no matter in what way they exemplify it….
61. Ronnie | September 30, 2010 at 5:54 pm

& we should believe her why?….Because she says so?….hahahahaha…La chica esta muy loca….she has alined herself with a Fascist hate group (NOM) that is out to destroy & control the personal lives of everyone who will not bow down to them…I mean their religious beliefs & definitions…..her credibility is shot…

Hey Lazano……Listen chica…..es muy estupido…..Grow up & take care of your daughter & your own miserable life instead of putting you nose where it doesn't belong.. i.e. the personal lives of LGBT Norteamericano's….ok chica?…. . ; ) …Ronnie
62. Jonathan H | September 30, 2010 at 5:59 pm

But Ronnie, God's on her side, remember? Karyme Lozano said so! Clearly, we've already lost and anything that looks good for equality is just God being a bastard, like He did with Job, except He actually liked Job.
63. Ronnie | September 30, 2010 at 6:08 pm

LOL…."God's" a bastard….well we know Jesus was….Ooooooohhhhh….Bastardooooo…(Its ok, I can call him that…card carrying bastardo right here…. & DAMN PROUD OF IT…..BASTARDOS RULE ALL!!!!)…….ROFL… X) …Ronnie
64. Daniel Morales | September 30, 2010 at 6:09 pm

quick update on the Karyme vanishing. This afternoon, national TV networks asked her about her involvement in the anti-gay campaign (NOM). She was ordered not to give any interviews about gays and focus only on abortion.

MegaTV told her that they were going live with the story "From gay pride queen to enemy of the lgbt community" I will update a facebook snapshot of their announcement. Univision Radio and W Radio also been talking about the NOM funding and I guess the gay issue was becoming too much of a distraction.

MegaTV called her at 2:00 PM W radio called me at 3PM and soon after that she was gone!

Thanks you guys for the hard work.
65. Jonathan H | September 30, 2010 at 6:11 pm

It's hard for me to tell between the twitter-speak and Ms. Lozano getting kinda worked up and incoherent, but I think she implied that her gay friends don't want gay marriage. She has more credibility in saying this than anyone else I've heard it from, because I can actually believe that she has (or at least had) gay friends.

That claim always reminds me of an interview about women driving in Saudi Arabia. When asked why it's illegal, the guy from the Saudi government said "They don't want to drive." He was unable to explain why women who don't want to drive are frequently arrested for the crime of driving while female.

See, I don't want to drive. You can tell, because of the way I sold my car and never replaced it. I've never felt a need to stop anyone else from driving, though, even though other people driving pose a real potential threat to my life and safety.
66. Jonathan H | September 30, 2010 at 6:13 pm

Wow, I think her public image just got whiplash
67. Lesbians Love Boies | September 30, 2010 at 8:23 pm

scribin
68. Ally | September 30, 2010 at 8:34 pm

I wouldn’t underestimate the simple fact that campaigning is tough work and as a celebrity she would much rather be surrounded by people who adore her no matter what she does.
69. Ronnie | September 30, 2010 at 8:42 pm

I repeat ….ay dios mio……<3….Ronnie
70. Richard A. Walter (soon to be Walter-Jernigan) | September 30, 2010 at 8:46 pm

I love how the revisionists keep trying to say that we are the ones who are changing the truth and cannot tell the truth. Another instance of “Methinks the lady doth protest too much.”
71. Rev. Will Fisher | September 30, 2010 at 9:11 pm

Tracy, you're on solid theological and Biblical ground here. I'd elaborate but my daughter just woke up… God Bless.
72. Sagesse | September 30, 2010 at 9:32 pm

Subscribing. I'll never get caught up . Oh wait… there's a weekend!
73. Chris | October 1, 2010 at 12:16 am

In light of NOM's use of a trademarked name, and me not wanting the name of something so close to my hometown of Houston, I emailed the people at Astroturf about this blog, http://nomblog.com/1949/
Their reply:
"Andy,
Take a look at this website to determine if your team has any issues with the use of the AstroTurf name.

Christopher, Thank you for passing this along. We appreciate it. "

Keep watching this blog post.
74. Anonygrl | October 1, 2010 at 12:17 am

My guess?

She got on the bus, after running away from our Teriffic Tour Trackers. Alfonso got on the bus and immediately started berating her for even talking to us at all. The argument continued for 27.3 miles, at which point she said "Let me off this bus!" (or maybe Alfonso said "get off my bus!") and they pulled over and let her go.
75. Kate | October 1, 2010 at 12:41 am

And I don't want to get married. But I absolutely insist on the right for everyone (even for me, who chooses not to) to be able to have that option. Jonathan, I guess that means in some near future, I'll have a driver's license and you'll have a marriage license, and we'll both celebrate YOURS.

PS – please keep those reply button cooties; I am hoping to be without them for a while.
76. Kate | October 1, 2010 at 12:48 am

This "tour" has now actually begun spinning off sub-stories — can it keep getting better like this? We're going to need a list of characters and plots at this rate. Too funny! Well, I guess she has finally achieved a bit of fame for herself — but it's not going to be the kind she wants. Keep us posted, Daniel!

PS — Who at P8TT is going to play Karyme's part in the upcoming movie? Maybe Mark can enlist one of his Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence to take this role? Anonygrl, start your video camera!
77. Kate | October 1, 2010 at 12:49 am

Merit badge here, Ann!
78. fern | October 1, 2010 at 12:55 am

Please have a little thought for Tyle Clementi formerly of New Jersey.
I'm very upset really.
It's on CBS news New York
"Additional Charges In Rutgers Spy Scam Saga Possible"
you might check the comments so you'll know the idiots you're up against.
Thank you.
79. Kate | October 1, 2010 at 12:56 am

I want to encourage folks who can go to the balance of the tour stops to take Bo's suggestion and contact the Unitarian churches local to those towns and notify them of this Hate Tour. (Great idea, Bo & Mom!) Also, a quick call to a couple of local PFLAG members will no doubt bring in scads of those fabulous PFLAG parents. And they usually have signs and appropriate gear always at the ready. Google PFLAG and the town in question (or ones nearby), and you'll no doubt come up with several numbers right off the bat. This is something both groups would love to attend, but the likelihood of them even hearing about it without some help is very, very slight, given what we've seen of the Hate Tour's publicity and promotion. (Heck, now we're even having to get attendees for them. Don't they know how to organize at all???)
80. Kate | October 1, 2010 at 1:00 am

Hmmmm……. I just figured out that their "day of rest" on the bus schedule listed for Sunday may well mean that they'll be driving that billboard bus to some Hispanic churches that day. But by not posting any announced "stops," they can then claim to the IRS that they weren't merging church and state in the process…….
81. Anonygrl | October 1, 2010 at 1:23 am

All of this is going into the mix for "BUS – The Movie!"

I need to see some video of Alfonso in action (if he ever has anyone to speak to) so I can start to get his character in the story… and I wonder if, someday, there might be a secret bus driver to bus driver hookup between Thomas and Louis. Hmmmm…
82. fiona64 | October 1, 2010 at 1:29 am

I would add to this excellent list: Metropolitan Community Church.

And then say "ditto" to everything else Tomato said.

Love,
Fiona
83. fiona64 | October 1, 2010 at 1:31 am

Heh. A friend and I, under the influence of altitude sickness and strong margaritas, watched telenovelas all night in Albuquerque once, making up our own dialogue. I am pretty sure ours was better, given what little Spanish I remember from my school days.

Love,
Fiona
84. fiona64 | October 1, 2010 at 1:32 am

But Tus Valores is a 501c(4), according to their website … so I think the rules are vastly different.

Love,
Fiona
85. Catherine | October 1, 2010 at 1:33 am

I live in Ridgewood, NJ, Tyler's hometown. I can practically see the GW Bridge from my house. I am devastated about this story. Such a brilliant, kind young man. No one had anything bad to say about him. My heart goes out to his family. I get so discouraged sometimes. I look to the younger generation to finally get it right about homosexuality. It seems we still have so much farther to go.
86. David Vallerga | October 1, 2010 at 1:42 am

One of the reasons the San Mateo stop was almost boring was that UUs were present. I was wearing my Standing on the Side of Love T-Shirt, with the name of my church, the UU Fellowship of Redwood City on the back. We didn't shout, we talked. The tour stop ended with a handshake. A member of the Palo Alto UU church took a photo of both the discussion and the handshake.

Remember, these people are largely hired staff. They were hired for their appearance, not their political views. Most are not immune to reason.
87. Daniel Morales | October 1, 2010 at 1:48 am

Here is the Facebook screenshot. National TV reporting on Karyme Loszano's anti-gay crusade. None of the networks were interested on covering before now everyone wants to talk to Karyme about it and your pictures and videos have been very enlightening to say the least.

http://besetu.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/papa…
88. Kathleen | October 1, 2010 at 1:51 am

Daniel, can you help out those of us here who are linguistically challenged and translate? Thanks!
89. Anonygrl | October 1, 2010 at 1:52 am

Correct.

From Wikipedia:

501(c)(4) organizations are generally civic leagues and other corporations operated exclusively for the promotion of social welfare, or local associations of employees with membership limited to a designated company or people in a particular municipality or neighborhood, and with net earnings devoted exclusively to charitable, educational, or recreational purposes.[19] Unlike 501(c)(3) organizations, 501(c)(4) organizations may lobby for legislation; they may also participate in political campaigns and elections, as long as campaigning is not the organization's primary purpose.[20]

Contributions to 501(c)(4) organizations are not deductible as charitable contributions. 501(c)(4) organizations are not required to disclose their donors publicly.[21] This aspect of the law has led to extensive use of the 501(c)(4) provisions for organizations that are actively involved in lobbying, and has become controversial.[22]

The tax exemption for 501(c)(4) organizations applies to most of their operations, but contributions may be subject to gift tax, and income spent on political activities – generally the advocacy of a particular candidate in an election – is taxable.[23]

The bolding is mine, and worth noting. Organizations with this tax exempt status may not PRIMARILY be lobbying organizations. So, by spending a BUTT load of money on bus tours, which are "educatonal" or "promoting social welfare" or somesuch nonsense, they prove that they are not just a lobbying organization. Thus, they do not CARE if no one ever hears the message, as long as they have reciepts for each city they said they would go to, and for the big, expensive bus, and for hotel rooms for the entire crew.

It is possible that the people ON the bus are unaware that they are being used in this fashion. Might be interesting to bring it to their attention… they may think that they were actually brought on board to do more than be a beard for NOM and The Susan B Anthony List. I wonder how they would feel if they knew that their success or failure was of absolutely no concern to their sponsors, that they are just out there to spend money so that NOM can push its election agenda in Maine and Iowa and…?

I wonder how the Latino community would feel about that? I wonder how Karyme would feel, finding out that NOM didn't so much put her ON the bus as throw her under it?
90. Anonygrl | October 1, 2010 at 1:56 am

… Anonygrl's shoulders sag, and her head drops. The bouquet of roses she was bringing to Kate drag on the ground as she sadly turns away and heads back to the store to return the engagement ring…
91. Kate | October 1, 2010 at 2:01 am

Wowzer, Anonygrl, I might just change my mind……
92. Judy | October 1, 2010 at 2:11 am

Another thought about why she may have left the tour… In one of the videos they say something like, "Enough with the paparazzi". I wonder if they think we're following their star.

Maybe they thought it was their TV star who was creating all this following, so get rid of the star and P8TT will go away. Little do they know how little we care about their TV star.

We're on you like glue, hermanos.
93. Mark M. (Seattle) | October 1, 2010 at 2:12 am

Big hugs Catherine.
94. elliom | October 1, 2010 at 2:17 am

I'll answer this one, for our non-local viewers.

Steamworks is, as far as I know, the last remaining gay bathhouse in the Bay Area.

So here's Karyme two years ago: singing and dancing at a gay pride event on a stage sponsored by a gay bathhouse.

Classy.
95. Judy | October 1, 2010 at 2:19 am

Google translation:

paparazzi today in the case relating to besil dra ORT took pole shift, karime lozano, to be queen of the gay community, now raging against them, shakira faces serious problems for a sexual harassment scandal, Doimeadiós respond if he stays or if leaves, and 2 poster actresses are with us in the studio.
96. Daniel Morales | October 1, 2010 at 2:19 am

The show was announcing the days topics.. second on the list:

Karyme Lozano – former Gay Pride Queen now fighting against them!!
97. elliom | October 1, 2010 at 2:28 am

Kate and anonygrl:

Don't be sad. You can still get a DP, or a CU, or just live together. Marriage is just a name. You don't need that.

Can't you just take what you're given and leave the rest of us alone?

*snark*
98. elliom | October 1, 2010 at 2:30 am

Anonygrl:

One small change I'd suggest to the title:

BUSt – The Movie
99. Rebecca | October 1, 2010 at 2:31 am

Apparently she really is trying to focus on the abortion issue…to the extent that it makes her look illogical!

She spends a long tweet saying how we're not respecting her views and those of her gay friends, then ends with,

"I support life!"

Um, dear Karyme, how is that comment at all related?
100. Kate | October 1, 2010 at 2:32 am

Anonygrl — There is a good video of Alfonso being aggressive on an earlier thread, the one with the guy and the megaphone on the opening still.
101. Anonygrl | October 1, 2010 at 2:33 am

Nope!

For me its all or nuthin'. Is it all or nuthin' for you?

Ten points to anyone who can name not only the show it comes from, but who sings it.
102. Anonygrl | October 1, 2010 at 2:35 am

I'll watch when I get home. Stupid state of New York, blocking videos from their stupid computers at my stupid job, which I better get back to before my stupid boss catches me.
103. nightshayde | October 1, 2010 at 2:36 am

If the tour is scouting locations & only showing up when they see a crowd of supporters, how about this…

Pro-Equality forces disguise themselves in drab clothing. They bring signs that say "Pro Marriage, Pro Family" and congregate at a planned tour stop. When the bus stops and the NOMbies get off the bus, the pro-equality folks take off their drab shirts to reveal the brightly colored shirts underneath, and take the pieces of cardboard which were covering the word "Equality" off their signs.

Now we have dozens of brightly-clad people holding signs that say "Pro Marriage Equality, Pro Family" — and NOMbies running off in a panic.
104. Kathleen | October 1, 2010 at 2:41 am

Oklahoma! Will sing to Annie.
105. Tracy | October 1, 2010 at 2:41 am

Thank you Reverend – I appreciate you taking the time to tell me that!
106. Kate | October 1, 2010 at 2:41 am

I actually dreamt this very thing last night!
107. Kate | October 1, 2010 at 2:42 am

Damn. Reply button cooties again. Ann is going to take my merit badge back.
108. Anonygrl | October 1, 2010 at 2:42 am

Ten points for you, Kathleen! Well done!
109. Kathleen | October 1, 2010 at 2:45 am

Thank you Daniel.
110. Kate | October 1, 2010 at 2:48 am

Good thing They have our Intrepid Trackers following them around, or They'd have no publicity at all.
111. Kathleen | October 1, 2010 at 2:54 am

Gladly take the points – 'cause I'm just a girl who can't say no.
112. Richard Cortijo | October 1, 2010 at 2:55 am

Thanks for the awesome coverage guys!!! BTW I might have missed it but are we planning any counter demonstration in Los Angeles?
113. fiona64 | October 1, 2010 at 3:01 am

"Vaya con dios" = "go with God"

"Via con dios" = "the way/road with God."

I think "Hit the road, doll …" works just fine.

Love,
Fiona
114. fiona64 | October 1, 2010 at 3:08 am

Contact your local Metropolitan Community Church as well. I wish I had thought to do that with the San Jose stop, as I attend MCC San Jose.

Love,
Fiona
115. Daniel Morales | October 1, 2010 at 3:11 am

Yes, Latino Equality Alliance has a facebook event for the counter demostration
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=1801088&amp…
116. Taylor S | October 1, 2010 at 3:13 am

NOOOOO! Had the PRIDE center at University of the Pacific known in Stockton, there would have been dozens of people (including MANY latinos/as) out counter protesting! They have been doing great things in Stockton.
117. Ann S. | October 1, 2010 at 3:38 am

Good job, Chris! Merit badges for Eternal Vigilance and Whistle Blowing are hereby awarded. Please wear them with pride!
118. Rob | October 1, 2010 at 3:39 am

Was good meeting the Tracker team this morning!

Short report: SEIU was there with roughly 15 people, plus several more unaffiliated people. Bus (of course) showed up about 15 minutes late–and once again had trouble making the turn into the venue, blocking traffic for a minute or two as they repeatedly backed up and repositioned themselves.
Once the bus got parked and the OmNomNomers got out, chants of "si se puede" drowned out Alfonso's speech. Alfonso closed with a smug face and self-serving "I know deep in your hearts, you'll be voting for Carly. We'll pray for you."
I didn't see anyone there to support Tus Valores other than their own staff.
119. Ann S. | October 1, 2010 at 3:40 am

Merit badges are not taken back once awarded. Don't make me make an exception.
120. Chris | October 1, 2010 at 3:45 am

Woohoo. I figured if PPM could call shenanigans, so could I .
Proud to be an Ally.
121. Kate | October 1, 2010 at 3:50 am

practicing here with reply button so I don't let Ann down…
122. John B. | October 1, 2010 at 3:51 am

As somebody who was seemingly a friend of our community, we can only hope that she comes to realize how NOM is using her and comes to regret her association with them. In the meatime, here are the questions I would like to ask her:

Do you think gay people are perverts?

Do you think your gay friends shouldn't find another person to love and share their lives with? Do you think they would be better off living their lives alone?

How do your gay friends feel about your new views about them?
123. Kate | October 1, 2010 at 3:51 am

Ignorance admittance here…. what is SEIU?
124. Kate | October 1, 2010 at 3:52 am

Do you suppose Thomas (Hi Thomas!) even has that special license to drive that thing with multiple folks aboard?
125. Rob | October 1, 2010 at 3:53 am

Kate, it's the Service Employees International Union (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Service_Employees_International_Union).
126. Ann S. | October 1, 2010 at 3:55 am

Good job, Kate.
127. Kate | October 1, 2010 at 3:57 am

Thank you, Rob. I'm delighted to see that Union members are continuing to show up. Did they have Boxer signs?
128. Rob | October 1, 2010 at 4:00 am

No Boxer signs that I saw, but signs opposing "Buy-It-Now Meg" and handwritten signs about equality, immigrations issues, and union concerns.
129. MJFargo | October 1, 2010 at 4:00 am

Arisha Michelle Hatch, it's nice to have you back. I really think your future in broadcast journalsim is bright. You can make the most awful stuff that you're reporting on palatable. More, more, more (not awful stuff, but your reporting).
130. Mark M. (Seattle) | October 1, 2010 at 4:01 am

Not sure why a gay bathhouse is considered to be scandalous and naughty when in every major city in the US we have strip clubs and nudie bars for all the horned up straight boys….never understood the dbl standard there.
Just sayin…..
131. Bob | October 1, 2010 at 4:02 am

well whatever happens, Karyme definetly got some publicity out of this tour, she's being talked about, in the news, we're playing her videos. she's sure to tqake advantage of that.

1. she stays true to her conversion and starts singing Christian songs, maybe even a backup choir

2. she realizes her base of supporters, and comes back to us as an ally, either way, she's got publicity.

wait and see
132. Kate | October 1, 2010 at 4:03 am

OMG. My first lover had boas (snakes, not fashion accessories), and we never did that with them! (Well, there was the time the power went out in her house, and we had to put them in pillowcases on our bellies in bed at night to keep them alive, but that was strictly for science.)
133. Kate | October 1, 2010 at 4:07 am

Amen. Arisha, you come across as the only sane one in the "conversation."
134. Anonygrl | October 1, 2010 at 4:31 am

A little backsliding just gives you reason to practice, is all.
135. Dave P. | October 1, 2010 at 6:52 am

"quick update on the Karyme vanishing. This afternoon, national TV networks asked her about her involvement in the anti-gay campaign (NOM)."

AWESOME !!
136. Dave P. | October 1, 2010 at 6:54 am

This story is getting more and more coverage in the mainstream press and on TV out here in California. As is the whole issue of anti-bullying legislation and LGBT Teen suicides.
137. Dave P. | October 1, 2010 at 6:56 am

And don't forget to contact your local LGBT community center, if there is one in the area.
138. Jonathan H | October 1, 2010 at 7:09 am

"Good thing They have our Intrepid Trackers following them around, or They’d have no publicity at all."

I'm starting to wonder if that's the way they want it. They really seem almost hostile towards publicity, for example not speaking to the only press that's consistently covering them. Or skipping stops that have a large opposition presence.

I'm seriously beginning to wonder if maybe there's something outright illegal going on, and they know it.
139. Jonathan H | October 1, 2010 at 7:19 am

Mark, I'm betting that the image of a "Gay Bathhouse" is something along the lines of an "Asian Massage Parlour".
140. bonobo | October 1, 2010 at 7:43 am

Wow!! Finally got around to watching this. It explains a lot of things. Especially her conversion to not only christianity but to abstinance.
When you're actually making a video like this, you really don't realize what the final product is going to portray, yeah you get the general gist of it and it seemed like a good idea at the time, but boy, when you watch it later. Especially with a family member (probably disapproving) it's a whole other story.
I truly feel sorry for her now.
141. bonobo | October 1, 2010 at 8:05 am

Fiorina throws Meg under the bus
CEO Watch Video: Carly Fiorina Says Employers Like Meg Whitman Who Knowingly Hire Undocumented Immigrants Should Go to Jail
September 30, 2010 By clarklee
Watch the video here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6cyiWxUjiM

Transcript of the video:

Question from Ch. 10 in Sacramento: “There was one viewer who asked the question, ‘Would you imprison employers who knowingly hired illegal immigrants?’”

Carly Fiorina: “Well, sure. If an employer is knowingly breaking the law, of course, they need to be punished to the fullest extent of the law. Absolutely.”

Question from the San Francisco Chronicle editor board: “What do we do about people who are hiring illegal immigrants for their businesses or their own homes?”

Carly Fiorina: “Well, that’s wrong, obviously. People who knowingly hire illegal immigrants are breaking the law, and they should be punished.”

###

CEO Watch is a project of the Los Angeles County Democratic Party that explores the records of Republican candidates who brag about their business credentials as qualifications for seeking public office. Not authorized by any federal candidate or committee.

I think an awful lot of farmers here in the North State and several I know in the South State are changing their votes about now.
142. Lesbians Love Boies | October 1, 2010 at 8:06 am

Ouch
143. Kate | October 1, 2010 at 8:24 am

I can't believe it, but I'm going to cheer Carly since this definitely seems to be a shot at Meg. I'm still not giving her my voto though, Alfonso. (Hi Thomas!)
144. Dave A | October 1, 2010 at 8:43 am

Does anyone here actually speak Spanish? My husband from Colombia told me that "vota tus valores" is actually incorrect grammatically. He said that it SHOULD be "Vota POR tus Valores" He ALSO told me when I said the name that Vota is pronounced identically in Spanish as Bota, which means to throw away. I found that rather humorous. Maybe THAT is why people are not attending. The Spanish speaking population in California thinks the tour is asking them to throw away their values!
145. Kate | October 1, 2010 at 8:45 am

You're right, Dave. We've been exploring their grammatical errors and soft insults for several threads now.
146. Elizabeth Oakes | October 1, 2010 at 9:23 am

Ah, excellent, thank you ladies. Though I wonder how the IRS determines what the "primary purpose" is.
147. Elizabeth Oakes | October 1, 2010 at 9:24 am

Because it seems to me that NOM's primary purpose IS lobbying.
148. Ann S. | October 1, 2010 at 9:28 am

Elizabeth, the bus of failure is not just a NOM project, it's a project of Tus Valores, which is, I think, sponsored by NOM and Susan B. Anthony List (I really hate that they are using Susan B. Anthony's name this way) and others.
149. Jonathan H | October 1, 2010 at 9:31 am

Elizabeth Oakes:

"Because it seems to me that NOM’s primary purpose IS lobbying."

No, no, Elizabeth NOM's primary purpose is fundraising. You see the lobbying is simply a means to that end!
150. Dave A | October 1, 2010 at 10:37 am

Thanks. I wish I had time to read ALL of the threads to follow this. But time constraints (like any other married couple have) doesn't lend itself to following all the threads sometimes. Oh wait, I forgot, I am not married; I simply have a roommate.
151. Elizabeth Oakes | October 1, 2010 at 1:39 pm

It still seems very fishy, and as someone pointed out on this thread: doesn't seem like the Busload of Failness Tour is really trying very hard to promote themselves, so you have to wonder if it's just about some kind of write-off, or they just really wanted to buy a bus or something.
152. Rhie | October 1, 2010 at 2:25 pm

My guess would be media…get away from the stop where people might see
153. Rhie | October 1, 2010 at 2:34 pm

That is a very compassionate response. I agree with you, but curious where you find that compassion. It can be so tempting to be as nasty to them as they are to us.
154. Box Turtle Bulletin &raqu&hellip | October 1, 2010 at 2:49 pm

[...] The National Organization for Marriage sponsored Vota Tus Valores tour picked up some support yesterday. They had Latinos there to support Carly Fiorina and her anti-gay values in Stocton and in Modesto and in Fresno. Too bad they were all the same people just moving with them from stop to stop. (Courage Campaign) [...]
155. Rhie | October 1, 2010 at 3:48 pm

Brad and Tracy–

I think you are both right, as the "they" is made up of many individuals with varying motivations. Some can't back their claims, know it, and are scared of questions. So they lash out to stop all conversations.

Others are convinced they are in the right, and the ends justify the means.

Other people have other motivations. I know someone who believes that everyone, deep inside, knows that he is right about God's will and will admit as much if they are just bullied hard enough.

Still others who identify as Christian or another religion believe strongly that their faith means that all are equal and all deserve rights and love and care.

I think this is because religion is what a person makes of it. If they are a fearful person they will find reasons to fear. If they are a bully, they will find reasons to bully. If they are compassionate, they will find reasons to be compassionate.
156. Rhie | October 1, 2010 at 3:53 pm

Hear! Hear!
157. Lightning Baltimore | October 3, 2010 at 7:30 am

No, no, no! The supporters came to them! Their site says so!

Photos: Stockton welcomes the VotaBus!

Many thanks to all our great supporters who greeted us at our first stop this morning in Stockton, CA! Here are a couple photos I managed to snap – more on the way, and some videos too!
158. Lightning Baltimore | October 3, 2010 at 2:32 pm

crud, photos got stripped out . . . the post itself: Photos: Stockton welcomes the VotaBus!

As always, please, no commenting.

^_^
159. francisco | October 3, 2010 at 3:50 pm

we ask for tolerance and we give zerooo tolerance to people that think in a different way! The day we respect others we will be respected too, the day we give tolerance, we will receive tolerance. You asked questions and she answered,and I think she did in an honest way,and all you do is mock her and start bullying her…mmm…I know gay haters, and I can see she is NOT!
160. Ronnie | October 3, 2010 at 3:54 pm

What the frak is your damage Heather?…chill out…she alined her self with the National Organization for Misinformation/Murder/Malevolence …she alined herself with a Fascist hate group who have gone above & beyond speech & are in advocating controlling people's personal lives with their Fascist & selfish "Moral" Superiority" control complex….You Get over it!… : / …Ronnie
161. francisco | October 3, 2010 at 3:54 pm

the day we stop bullying people that think in a different way than us, that day we will be taken more serioulsy!
162. francisco | October 3, 2010 at 10:47 pm

oh! BTW, theres people bulliyng me just because I say what I think! I dont agree with all that gay community say and Ive been called anti-gay!WTF!? Meeee????Im gayyy!!! I just dont agree with everything you say and with all the hate you do pass on to people! Karime has NOT expressed one word of hatred! And you all are insulting her,just because she doesnt think like you. Get over it!
163. Ronnie | October 3, 2010 at 11:04 pm

So we should just allow them to control every aspect of our lives until they decide not to anymore?….yeah…no thank you…I say who…I say when…I say where…I say how much…& sometimes why…

We are not bullying anybody…they are the ones infringing on our 1st & 14th amendment rights…they are the one imposing their fascist beliefs & defitnitions on us…well…NO MORE!!!……. >I ….Ronnie
164. Jonathan H | October 3, 2010 at 11:04 pm

This is not, nor has it ever been, about people who think in different ways. It’s about the rights of people to marry whom they choose.

What do you mean by “we”, Francisco? And you have an interesting definition of “bullying”; the harshest language I’ve seen here was insults. To really be a bully you have to use threats and intimidation, you have to make your target afraid of you. I could understand her being annoyed, perhaps even angry, but I haven’t seen anyone trying to induce fear. And if someone has, and I’ve missed it, that just means that one person is wrong, it does not spread their sins around to everyone.
165. Rhie | October 4, 2010 at 2:04 pm

It's not bullying to disagree with an idea or properly point out when an idea leads to bullying and worse.

All ideas are not equal. All opinions do not deserve equal respect. Some deserve derision because they are evil. There IS such a thing as a wrong opinion.

People aren't attacking her because she is different; they are attacking her stance because it is hateful.

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