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Legacy Exclusions
March 21, 2010
by Brian Leubitz
When you look at some of the anti-gay bias, there are two real kinds out there. First, you’ve got the hard biases, the marriage bans, the DADT’s of the world. But, then you have some more subtle discrimination.
Gay men and lesbians are barred from taking part in many clinical trials that deal with sexual functions and occasionally from other studies as well, researchers are reporting.
Writing in this week’s issue of The New England Journal of Medicine, the authors say the scientific rationale for the exclusions, if any, is not at all clear. “Researchers should be held to careful scientific reasons,” they add, “when they develop exclusion criteria that are based on sexual orientation.” (NY Times)
For many of these researchers, it’s not so much an issue of consciously excluding the LGBT community. It’s more just what has been done in the past. This may seem to be a kind of petty issue, but it has real-world implications. In some medical issues that this study reviewed, there can be differences between an opposite sex-couple and same-sex couples. Ignoring our community does us a disservice.
The fix is simple, really. Instead of just doing what has been done in the past, researchers should take a few minutes to thoroughly review their research design. Does that LGBT exclusion really impact the research or is it just there because it’s there? And that’s pretty much it.
But, then again, if we were all conscientious beings, the world would be a much better place overall.
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90 Comments Leave a Comment
1.
K!r!lleXXI | March 21, 2010 at 1:40 am
I think they are still afraid to include us, the geighs, into their research because, even though the world decided we're not sick, our very existence, our difference is yet to be explained in scientific terms… What is homosexuality? How it happens in humans? Why it happens? How does it effect sexual feelings and traits?
Instead of talking about being included in those studies, we should be talking about conduction additional studies ("separate", if you may), specifically targeted of homosexual people, to reveal if there is, in fact, any significant difference in terms of some specific study. Or, instead of barring us from those studies, they simply have to ask every participant about one's sexual orientation — to make conclusions about the influence non-standard sexual orientation has on people in terms of particular study. But simply barring us from those studies is silly and unfounded.
–Kirill, Russia
2.
Waxr | March 21, 2010 at 2:08 am
In many cases researchers may have good reason not to include gays and lesbians in their study. It is standard practice for scientist to eliminate as many variables as possible. Whether sexual orientation will affect the outcome of the study is not always possible to determine, so it would be better to be on the safe side and limit the number variables by keeping gays and lesbians out of at least the initial tests.
However, I agree with you that the main reason gays and lesbians are omitted from clinical trials is the leftover effects of prejudice.
3.
dieter | March 21, 2010 at 2:40 am
Third grade snicker of the day…
http://joemygod.blogspot.com/2010/03/today-in-pro…
I just love a giant Hard-on collision
4.
dieter | March 21, 2010 at 2:43 am
Acne Drug Found To Work On HIV
Researchers at Johns Hopkins have discovered that the inexpensive acne drug minocycline works well to help suppress HIV replication, making it a potentially highly valuable addition to the HAART arsenal.
“The powerful advantage to using minocycline is that the virus appears less able to develop drug resistance because minocycline targets cellular pathways not viral proteins,” says Janice Clements, Ph.D., Mary Wallace Stanton Professor of Faculty Affairs, vice dean for faculty, and professor of molecular and comparative pathobiology at the Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine. “The big challenge clinicians deal with now in this country when treating HIV patients is keeping the virus locked in a dormant state,” Clements adds. “While HAART is really effective in keeping down active replication, minocycline is another arm of defense against the virus.” Unlike the drugs used in HAART which target the virus, minocycline homes in on, and adjusts T cells, major immune system agents and targets of HIV infection. According to Clements, minocycline reduces the ability of T cells to activate and proliferate, both steps crucial to HIV production and progression toward full blown AIDS.
Johns Hopkins says the drug will greatly advance the goal of making HIV+ patients non-infectious.
NON – INFECTIOUS!!!
that would destroy all those haters campaign that gays are spreading aids to them….
5.
dieter | March 21, 2010 at 3:24 am
gotta remember to subscribe to new posts.
6.
Bill | March 21, 2010 at 4:03 am
I am not sure why anyone would be surprised by this.
Back in the 80's when AIDS was killing us like flies, heterosexuals stood back and let us die. CELEBRATED our deaths. CHEERED at our funerals. IGNORED our plea for help. Some of you younger folks out there might want to research just how vile it got in the 80's. Because your schools will not teach you the truth about how it all went down back then.
Only when heterosexuals began getting sick and dying from AIDS did the drug companies TRULY respond. Until that started happening, they LITERALLY let us die while shaking their fingers at us, telling us that God was punishing us. This was not a movie. This was real life. They did this. Their spiritual leaders went on television and said that the government and the medical community should do nothing. And let AIDS do what God sent AIDS here to do. I was a child then. I watched this happen. It had a profound effect on who I became as an adult.
Watching heterosexuals laugh and cheer as we died in the thousands is something one does not forget. Watching heterosexuals in the 80's walk around in T-shirts that read "AIDS: Kills Fags Dead" and WORSE, I really can't be surprised to find out that a pharmaceutical company has their own form of discrimination toward us as well.
Becasue if heterosexuals are capable of the kind of balls-out, right in your face, celebratory gay-bashing that most of them are, they will certainly take their opportunites to abuse their gay children in ANY arena where the opportunity presents itself.
And what better way to do that than to exclude us from a study that might actually BENEFIT us instead of PUNISH us.
We're being punished. Eternally. Because as we all know, that cures 'the gay.'
See the cycle here…
Ugggghhhhh!!!
7.
Kathleen | March 21, 2010 at 4:14 am
I saw that… pretty funny.
8.
Ronnie | March 21, 2010 at 4:47 am
"The fix is simple, really. Instead of just doing what has been done in the past, researchers should take a few minutes to thoroughly review their research design."
But that would require them to think harder, out of the box, and broader like science and experimentation is supposed to do ….. apparently they are not capable of doing that anymore…Lazy bums…..<3….Ronnie
9.
Breathturn | March 21, 2010 at 5:00 am
Yes…and it seems, as with sexism and racism, once we have a grip of obvious bias, it is important to route out subtle bias. Procedure experts are constantly struggling with bias. As Einstein put it, Theory is something nobody believes, except the person who made it. An experiment is something everybody believes, except the person who made it.
I found this quote on a great blog about method…check it out if you are interested…
http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/niftyc/archives/277
10.
GAYGUY | March 21, 2010 at 5:43 am
I guess my confusion is…what about SEX are they still researching? Men do it with women, women do it with men, men do it with men and women do it with women! Why waste any money on the reason why or how or the what ifs of it!! Are they trying to change or make it better…I think that we will all agree…better can only be determined by the imagination of the two….or three..or 20 people involved!
11.
Robert | March 21, 2010 at 6:11 am
You seem to be falling into the same trap that many people have over the centuries, and used to excuse all sorts of atrocities. A gay person was promiscuous, therefore all gay people are promiscuous. A heterosexual was a bigot, therefore all heterosexuals are bigots out to kill you. This is nonsense.
I have noticed a similar phenomenon here with people using the term 'hateros'. Now, it could be that this is used simply to those who hate. I really doubt this explanation. It is a word specifically chosen to look and sound like 'hetero', and the strong implication from it is that all heterosexuals are regarded as haters. Besides, this sort of 'wordplay' does not reflect well upon those doing it. I see it a lot from the more mindless denizens of the Daily Mail website (' Tony B Liar' etc), and it's just as unwitty here as it is there. Please stop doing it!
Right, rant over!
As for the actual article, I feel that the need to eliminate as many variables as possible can excuse quite a lot. Especially when that variable is a major one, with far reaching implications! Ideally the sample size would be large enough that decent statistics could be got from the subset of homosexuals, in order to compare to the overall group. Realistically that isn't going to happen of course.
12.
Straight Ally #3008 | March 21, 2010 at 6:21 am
There's great variation in genetics and physiology within any population in a clinical trial. Unless you're exploring something related to sexual orientation, there's no good reason to use it as a selection criterion. I haven't personally noticed superfluous sexual orientation requirements in clinical trials, but now I'll keep an eye out for it.
To digress a bit, renowned magician and skeptic James Randi ("The Amazing Randi") has come out at 81. He talks about life as a closeted gay man and his support of marriage equality on the "For Good Reason" podcast with D.J. Grothe. If you ever get a chance to hear him speak, do take advantage of it!
13.
K!r!lleXXI | March 21, 2010 at 6:27 am
Robert, we specifically use the word "haterosexual" to refer to the group of heterosexual people who hate us, gays, simply for being that way. We are actually, by using this word, excluding those heterosexual people who do not hate us or even support us (straight allies). This is a real explanation here, this is how we understand it here. I use it specifically for that purpose, and for that purpose only… If someone misunderstands it, we cannot do anything about that but shed some light.
–Kirill
14.
Bob | March 21, 2010 at 6:28 am
Great history lesson Bill, I'm a survivor of that era, and living with aids for quarter of century, I've participated as a guinea pig in many drug trials, my first circle of friends is all dead,
It's good for the young to be educated about those Anita Bryant days.
Also remember that part of that discrimination (which actually came from the pope, enforced by the gov't of the U.S.) was the ban on entry to the U.S. by anyone with HIV. Because of the religious discrimination, the U.S. failed in it's part of contributing money and resources to aid research into a cure.
The AIDS organizations, and research committees from numerous countries have been quite outspoken about this lack of response to the crisis at hand.
I was surpised at reading something about health coverage does not include early intervention for HIV treatment or something like that, they were trying to get that included in the new Health Bill, that is astounding , originally they were treating us too early, but now it's crucial to begin treatment when CD4 fall below 200, you don't have to be sick to get treatment.
Any of the progess made by the countries leading the fight, has been done pretty much as an outright defiance of the pope and his dictates.
Definetly , having taken drugs for a some twenty five years, I realize, the pharmacutical companies are in it only for the money that is obvious, neverthless, we now have experts in the field, and their expertise along with activists in AIDS organizations, we have come a long way in the fight,in Canada similar to many other countries, all our medications are free, for the treatment of HIV,
The contribution made by those who are living and those who have died from AIDS has been recognized by people living with other life threatening deseases, and many of those groups have learned from the approach the AIDS organziations have taken, mainly in the form of activism, but also the LGBT community rallying around and supporting and loving one another.
Like Dieter said in an earlier post, we will never die, the fact that we survived and are now reaching out to straight folks, and helping them survive this diagnosis is a testament to our community.
Yes the clinics are no longer full of gay men, we no longer find that comradery, it is now innundated with heterosexuals, everyone, grandmothers, new mothers, research has gone so far that they can prevent mothers from passing the virus to new born babies.
15.
David Kimble | March 21, 2010 at 6:43 am
yeah, chuckles! thanx, dieter! <3 David
16.
Ronnie | March 21, 2010 at 6:45 am
Well Robert…….. as the person who came up with the word "Hatero"…..I would say you are wrong…..That word is not to describe heterosexual people as we believe that heterosexual people have hearts and can relate to everyone on a human level…..it is done to separate the the good straight people from the bad…..If you notice we also use that word for ex-gays and people like Sen. Ashburn who actively oppresses the LGBTQQIA community so that they can suppress their own homosexuality…….
Here's a little word play…the scientific label for humans…..is Homosapien…..we are called Homosexuals….so in that case we are the normal ones….and heterosexuals are not…..I don't believe that that is why I created haterosexual because it separates them into two distinct mindsets…..one being positive (hetero)….and the other being negative (hatero)
Hateros are defined by their ability to impose there religious beliefs, emotions, actions, feelings, and well Hate by using it to dictate law, excluding people who do not conform to their image ….. Hateros do not care about other peoples feelings…they are egocentic, condescending, and narcissistic…..they believe that they are the only ones deserving of respect…..In all actuality they demonstrate classic and obvious attributes of the KKK and Nazis…….. And in the case of many Hatero's who are anti-eqaulity…. they repeatedly ignore that there are heterosexual people that support Equality….another name for those heteros are "Allies"….that is what the "A" stands for in LGBTQQIA…..but they are never mentioned by Hateros and their irrational arguments…..which is weird since during the civil rights movements and interracial marriage movement white people who supported them had the privilege of being called n****r lovers…..however our hetero Allies don't even have that…..they are simply called gay or ignored as if they do not even exist……It really is that simple…..<3….Ronnie
17.
Ed | March 21, 2010 at 7:49 am
One interesting case where sexual orientation was not emphasized and perhaps might have been more so: Masters and Johnson evolved in their research efforts to the point where they filmed couples making love while monitoring some physiological function. They filmed both heterosexual and same gender couples. They found that the same gender couples showed greater and more observable arousal than the heterosexual couples- but never emphasized that in their writings. It is possible that the same gender couples were more recently coupled than the heterosexual couples, or perhaps there were other differences, but it was intriguing that there was a difference favored the same gendered couples.
18.
Kathleen | March 21, 2010 at 8:01 am
I wish they would have pursued this. It occurs to me that there's a very obvious possible explanation for the difference – same sex couples have a better understanding of the general parameters of sexual arousal of their own sex. Of course, no way to know if that is what accounted for this in the Master-Johnson studies without further study. But it certainly is borne out in my own experience. The women I've been with didn't require nearly as much education as did many of the men.
19.
Richard A. Walter (s | March 21, 2010 at 8:33 am
Yes, and Brian, there are also other implications in addition to how medications and other treatments react within LGBTQQI's and straights. There have been studies which have shown that certain ilnesses have a lower incidence within the LGBTQQI community than they do in the straight community, and yet these studies are harder to replicate due to the legacy of exclusion.
20.
Bob | March 21, 2010 at 9:06 am
@ Robert , it's pretty clear from your post that you are what Kirill, has defined as a hatero, not an ally, am I wrong???
21.
Kathleen | March 21, 2010 at 9:14 am
Bob, I didn't see anything that Robert said in his post that suggested his disapproval of gay people, let alone hatred. The only thing he said was that he didn't like the use of "hatero", as he understood its use to mean that there was an assumption that all heteros hated gay people.
Was there some other post at the site that I missed?
22.
Adam | March 21, 2010 at 9:26 am
Q.v.
23.
Richard A. Walter (s | March 21, 2010 at 9:33 am
@Robert, we use the word "hatero" here to distinguish the bigots from the allies. Yes, we do know that we have many heterosexual allies in this country and around the world. At the same time, however, we also know that there are those who would desire nothing any more fervently than they desire our death and elimination, simply because they hate us. These are the "hateros." And the only ones who catch the association are usually the ones who are our allies, and who realize that "hatero" is not a blanket term, but rather a term used to dscribe those who would rather see us dead than to accept us as human beings who have emotions, thoughts, and familes, just as they have. So are you a "hatero" or an ally? Are you in favor of equality for all, or in favor of discrimination and beatings?
24.
dieter | March 21, 2010 at 9:49 am
NOW FRICKEN CAMBODIA IS MORE GAY FRIENDLY THAN THE U.S.
Cambodia courting the gay community..
Homosexual acts are not outlawed in Cambodia, as they are in a few Southeast Asian countries, but outward displays of affection and untraditional lifestyles are rare. Yet in Siem Reap, a small town that gets about a million tourists a year, gay visitors and locals are carving out a little haven. In the last few years, a small flurry of gay-friendly bars, restaurants and hotels has opened up in the city’s center and beyond, with wink-wink names like the Golden Banana and Cockatoo.
25.
Bob | March 21, 2010 at 9:59 am
@Kathleen, am I messing up again? read the post by Richard Walker #15, he explains it.
and ally gets the term, and doesn't ask the question, the reason I simply asked Robert to clarify, is because, hopefully I am wrong, I do appreciate him admitting to his right rant.
I myself made the mistake of defining Melissa as a hetero in our midst, which was stereotyping, I meant to say hatero, I have every confidence that Robert like Melissa have the ability to correct me when I'm wrong, just as you do, and I appreciate it, that's what gives us the courage to speak our truth, and ask questions,
26.
Rose W. | March 21, 2010 at 10:00 am
I was born in '86, so I missed all of this. This is news to me. Could you please mention a website or a book or something to use as a starting point so I can learn more about this?
27.
Waxr | March 21, 2010 at 10:03 am
While watching the debate on the health care bill, one congress woman supported the bill because it does not allow health insurance companies to discriminate against preexisting conditions. She then pointed out that being a woman is a preexisting condition, as is pregnancy and domestic abuse.
By the same reasoning, being gay or lesbian is a preexisting condition, and health insurance companies should not be allowed to discriminate on that.
28.
Kathleen | March 21, 2010 at 10:10 am
Bob, I really don't know. Maybe I'm missing a post by Robert somewhere, but I only know about the one above. Maybe he has more of a history here than I'm aware.
IF that's his only post and IF he hasn't been reading the board for long, I can see how the use of the term "hatero" could be misunderstood as a term that had been indiscriminately substituted for "hetero" and thus brings with it the suggestion that ever hetero person hates glbt people.
I don't agree that an ally would automatically understood that it's only being used to describe some heteros. Frankly, if I came on to the board for the first time, without any of the background, and saw people using the term "hatero" I could image drawing the conclusion that the people using it thought all heteros were hateful.
I have no way of knowing what Robert's opinion of glbt people are. I'm just saying that, from that one post, I can't really draw a conclusion.
29.
Bob | March 21, 2010 at 10:19 am
@Kathleen, neither can I draw a conclusion, that's why I directed the question to him, did you find my question offensive?
30.
Pam | March 21, 2010 at 10:20 am
I think that there have been studies comparing lesbian and straight women's risks of developing breast cancer, although I'm not sure the sample size was significant in any of the studies. I think at least one study was based on hypotheticals re: difference in "lifestyles." And at least one website I found commented on the difficulty of coming out to doctors b/c of anxiety about stereotyping & bias.
31.
Kathleen | March 21, 2010 at 10:24 am
Bob, I was originally responding to your post which said, "@ Robert , it’s pretty clear from your post that you are what Kirill, has defined as a hatero, not an ally, am I wrong???"
It's not that I found your question offensive, only that it said that there was something in his post that made you think he was a "hatero" and I was simply saying that I didn't see anything in his post that suggested that.
That's all.
32.
Pam | March 21, 2010 at 10:27 am
Here's some info re: Anita Bryant's hate campaign: http://thecastro.net/bryant.html
I was a teenager living in Florida during her Miami years; her vile lies (along with evangelical reinforcement) kept me closeted an additional 10 years of my life.
33.
Richard A. Walter (s | March 21, 2010 at 10:30 am
There was a recent relase that gay men had a lower incidence of prostrate cancer than straight men. Often this may be due to the fact that gay men do tend to go to the doctor more often than straight men, but it could also be due to other factors. I will see if I can find the link and post it.
34.
Richard A. Walter (s | March 21, 2010 at 10:31 am
By the way, this is off-topic, but I just saw a post where Rosie will be coming back to daytime TV in the Fall of 2011, just as Oprah winds her show down. And Rosie will be working with the same people that she worked with on her last talk show.
35.
dieter | March 21, 2010 at 10:59 am
yeah I saw that…funny…pretty soon the 3 most successful talk shows are going to be:
Ellen, Wanda sykes, and Rosie…3 Lesbians…
speaks volumes to the public acceptance.
by the way it is now 7:00 P.M. california time and healthcare bill is about 10 minutes away from being voted into law.
and THEN I can get into a pool to get my cancer treatment.
36.
David Kimble | March 21, 2010 at 11:29 am
Yeah, so happy for you dieter – I wish you the best on treatments. You are in my thoughts. <3 David
37.
Bob | March 21, 2010 at 11:34 am
@Rose, if you're referring to the lack of response to the AIDS epidemic, one book that comes to mind is "The Band Played ON"
I forget the authors name, Schiller comes to mind or something like that, look it up by title, it's a good one cause it was one of the first written on that subject and is I think quite historically correct from the U.S. gay perspective.
Also check out any of your local Aids organizations, some of them have libraries.
38.
dieter | March 21, 2010 at 11:45 am
HEALTHCARE JUST PASSED!!!!!!!!!!!
HEALTHCARE JUST PASSED!!!!!!!!!!!
HEALTHCARE JUST PASSED!!!!!!!!!!!
39.
Kathleen | March 21, 2010 at 11:49 am
This is really exciting!!!
Who knows when the critical elements – availability of pools, prohibition of pre-existing, etc. go into effect?
40.
Ronnie | March 21, 2010 at 11:49 am
Good now maybe OB. can get down to business…..before he has Civil War II…….JMHGO……<3….Ronnie
41.
Richard A. Walter (s | March 21, 2010 at 12:03 pm
Baruch HaShem!
Baruch HaShem!
Baruch HaShem!
Now, not only can you get your treatments, Dieter, I can actually get health coverage finally!
42.
Ed-M | March 21, 2010 at 12:22 pm
@Robert, we use the term "hatero" to distinguish heterosexuals that believe in institutionalised homophobia no matter how extreme and work towards that end, plus those who should be part of the LGBTIQQ community (i.e., "ex-gays" and Sen. Ashburn types) but instead work for institutionalised homophobia as well. This is a wholly separate group from straight allies and the majority of heterosexual persons for whom gay rights is simply a neutral issue that has yet to prick their sense of justrice.
43.
Ed-M | March 21, 2010 at 12:33 pm
Same here. Kept me in denial til I was 25… then after a dating relationship that went sour, Evangelicalism caused me to join the Boston Church of Christ and "disciple" myself "straight" til I was 29.
44.
Alan E. | March 21, 2010 at 12:42 pm
I just heard this news! I bet the psychics never saw this one coming. I am proud of he has done so far. His letter is on his site here: http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/swift-blog/91…
45.
Bob | March 21, 2010 at 1:05 pm
Brian, those are some interesting observations about excluding same sex couples from research studies, although there is much effort made to search out and include other minorities.
I was just thinking, they don't care about our sexual function, or disfunction.
But they can't deny all the research that gay men in particular went through, endless studies and research trials, many of us were the first to try new therapies coming out after they passed stage three trials, making us the first humans to actual use the drugs. I have had drugs given on compassionate grounds, which means they hadn't passed all the hurdles to ensure there safety in humans, but I had no other option, many of us did this as a responsibility and duty to particpate in experiments , having to sign waivers .
It is the straight community that now benefits from those early trials. When it comes to disease like aids or cancer, sexual orientation doen't matter , in fact disease levels the playing field, because it only looks for a host, and doesn't discriminate, with petty issues.
46.
dieter | March 21, 2010 at 1:13 pm
Kathleen, according to the bill, and CNN, 90 days after the Prez signs the Bill, any person who is SICK and uninsured, can join a pool to get the care they need.
if you are not sick, I believe it could be up to 4 years to get covered.
so I receommend to anyone out there…get a check up NOW to see if you have anything wrong.
for myself as an uninsured cancer patient, I believe this means within 3 months I can finally get the care I need.
cutting it close for me with a suggestion that I had only two years left without care from the time of diagnosis, and I was diagnosed in May of 2009.
47.
Kathleen | March 21, 2010 at 1:31 pm
Thanks for the info, Dieter. I sure hope you're able to get treatment SOON. When you're sick and need care, yesterday isn't soon enough.
I'm in the "fortunate" position of being permanently disabled by Lyme disease. That means that I have Medicare, and because I'm reaaaalllly poor, it's supplemented with Medicaid. I find it absurd when people talk about their fear of the government "taking over" health care. As someone who has Medicare, I know first hand what good insurance it is. I've never had to worry about my insurance company dropping me, even when the cost of treatment has been high — unlike others I know with private insurance. I think I would be dead right now if I didn't have Medicare. My greatest sadness about this reform is that it wasn't a sweeping reform which gave every person access to single-payer, Medicare-like insurance.
48.
Dan Hess | March 21, 2010 at 1:51 pm
Little off-topic, but how many letters are we going to keep adding to the acronym? I think it's at LBGTQIA now, and I have no idea what anything after T's supposed to stand for. Can we just use Queer or ASO (for Alternative Sexual Orientation) and stop going berserk with the nomenclature? If it gets any longer no one's really going to care what it stands for anyway, so it makes more sense to have a name that includes everyone rather than trying to add all the possible SOs into a giant acronym.
49.
dieter | March 21, 2010 at 2:03 pm
Q = Questioning
I = Intersexed
50.
Kathleen | March 21, 2010 at 2:04 pm
Personally, I've always liked the word Queer. It encompasses so much, about the way we don't fit into the mainstream notion of what gender roles are about. But I know that for some, it's a word that carries some pain with it from it's long history as a slur. Also just my opinion, but I've always thought that queerness itself was one of the great gifts from the queer community to the rest of humanity; it serves as an example of freedom from so many stereotypes that burden people and stand in the way of personal growth and accomplishment.
51.
Ed-M | March 21, 2010 at 2:09 pm
Somewhat OT, but what went down in Texas recently is creeping Christo-fascism…
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/13/education/13tex…
There's also the Renaissance but that's not a philosophy — it was a rediscovery of the ancient Greco-Roman world. Which the institutionalised Christian Church HATED. They really Do want to take us back to the dark ages!
52.
dieter | March 21, 2010 at 2:46 pm
OMG..I am laughing so hard. I am watching a new show called over the limit ..kinda like cops but about drunk people.
this cop pulls a black guy over, and thinks he looks like a suspect they were looking for. the cop says..they can tell if it's the right guy by the tattoos on his forearms…so he asked the black guy to show him his forearms..and the guy goes..
"Whatchoo talkin bout?..show you my ..F0-arms?..I ain't gots fo-arms…I only gots TWO arms….
lol..cop just started bustin up…me too!!
53.
dieter | March 21, 2010 at 2:50 pm
We are safe in California…we will never use such bullshit..LOL..we have our own books..you know..the ones with REALITY in them…but one thing this decision does do is make sure that we here in California will NEVER hire anyone for employment that comes from Texas. because NO-ONE who owns a business in California will want someone who has an education based on hysterical right wing bible thumping fairy tales.
But what do you expect from Texas?..they have 3 of the top ten fattest cities in the entire nation, and in Texas it is Legal to have sex with animals.
go figure they want to lie about history.
54.
Ronnie | March 21, 2010 at 2:51 pm
What I want to know is……When are the Hatero's going to learn that next to nobody under the age of 30 reads books anymore?…..specifically text books…..texts books are not even considered primary resources anymore….and most proffs want at least 10 diff resources that are not the text book……I went to the Art Institute of NYC and Philadelphia and in my U.S. History classes we were only aloud to cite the text book once…..The teacher didn't even use the text book and didn't require us to buy it……When I was in High school, 7 years ago, it was the same case for using the text books as a secondary reference only……Maybe these dinosaurs should realize that EVERYTHING is on the internet……..And why do they ASSume that just because they leave it out that teachers are just going to stop teaching it…..My high school history teacher taught about things that were not in the text books….. The teachers are going to keep using the same words….and trust me the majority of students don't read the books they listen to the teachers…And students these days know that text books are not written by historians but by people who force history to be what its not…..The younger generations follow this rule to the "T"….."Don't believe everything you read and everything your told its all second and third person hearsay"…..but the Hateros don't seem to realize that….Bad mix of denial and delusion….
Seriously why do they keep forgetting that this is the 21st cent….and that we are living in the technology/information age…..I mean come on, kids are reading books on Kindles and iPads now…..When will the Hateros get it through their thick skulls that the text book is dead?
55.
Sheryl | March 21, 2010 at 3:40 pm
This is really off topic but it does relate to health care. Here's the deal, I'm an independent distributor for a food science company called Reliv International (reliv.com on the net). Six of the products have U.S. food patents, so the company has spent the money to do the research to prove that the products do what the company claims they will, for example. Anyway, I'd like each of you with health issues (cancer, lymes, cholesterol, whatever) to go to these 2 websites by 2 other independent distributes (James and I are just starting, so don't have that kind of money) http://www.relivingpartners and wwwl.relivinglife.com As the stories change I'm not sure what is there at the moment.
No, I do not want to make a profit from any of you. If anyone has any interest in the products (and I hope you will for your own health), I will be more than happy to provide them to you at my cost. I can also put you touch with others with your conditions who do use these products and you can discuss with them their results and what they take. My family has been using the essential nutritional supplement for over 1 year with great results and will always use it, which is why we got into the distributorship, might as well get that discount.
Okay, I'll stop now. But please go to those websites and check them out. Oh, the same lady presents the stores on both sites, but the stories are different.
Sheryl B
56.
K!r!lleXXI | March 21, 2010 at 9:58 pm
Let's help Gregory and Jonathan
(who got legally married in DC and made the news)
win the wedding contest! http://www.ultimateweddingcontest.com/entries/226…
For some, these things may seem silly, but it is important for our visibility and growth of acceptance!
Thank you for your votes!
57.
Ronnie | March 21, 2010 at 10:42 pm
http://www.advocate.com/News/Daily_News/2010/03/2…
Posted on Advocate.com March 22, 2010
Antigay Protester Outnumbered 500 to 1
By Julie Bolcer
"The antigay Westboro Baptist Church did not make good on a threat Thursday to protest a production of The Laramie Project at a Louisiana high school, but a lone sympathizer did appear, only to be outnumbered by 500 counter protesters in a peaceful display."
(me) WOW!!!!……Like I said Our power clearly is not political in nature…..its in our numbers which the Hateros continue to stupidly ignore…..This 1 loser was surrounded by 500 people who want Equality….I hope he was afraid for his life….dumb @ss…….<3….Ronnie
58.
Ronnie | March 21, 2010 at 11:14 pm
http://www.advocate.com/News/Daily_News/2010/03/2…
Posted on Advocate.com March 22, 2010
Antigay Website Listed as Hate Group
By Julie Bolcer
"The website of the antigay group Americans For Truth About Homosexuality recently became listed as a hate group by the Southern Poverty Law Center."
(me) PWND…….
“The criteria that the Law Center historically has used to determine whether or not an organization is a hate group is not merely that it opposes legal equality for gays or others, but whether or not they intentionally utilize discredited and slanderous propaganda to spread lies about a group of people,” said GLN. “By repeatedly using the phoney ‘research’ of defrocked psychologist Paul Cameron, who is roundly condemned by every major professional psychological association, AFTAH's website apparently met the Law Center's definition of a hate group.”
(me) Take them down one by one……Repent Hateros or be black listed…….
"The leader of AFTAH is Peter LaBarbera, who previously headed the Illinois Family Institute. According to GLN, that group was briefly listed as a hate group by the Law Center when it listed work from Cameron on its website.
(me) This guy will probably never get another job…every where he goes people gonna know….they are hateros and we'll tell them…..We are true Americans….gay and mighty americans…Deal with it you Nazis….True American's demand Equality…….hehehehe…..<3….Ronnie
59.
Ronnie | March 21, 2010 at 11:15 pm
Now Can NOM be next?……<3…Ronnie
60.
Dave T | March 21, 2010 at 11:46 pm
If you want a great look at research into sex and sexuality, I recommend Bonk: The Curious Coupling of Science and Sex by Mary Roach. I'm currently about halfway through it and it's great!
Mary Roach is probably one of my favourite authors. She brings a great sense of humour to this subject (and to her other two books: Stiff: The Curious Lives of Human Cadavers and <a>Spook: Science Tackles the Afterlife).
61.
fiona64 | March 22, 2010 at 12:46 am
"And The Band Played On" was written by the late Randy Shilts, one of the finest investigative journalists ever to grace San Francisco.
Love,
Fiona
62.
fiona64 | March 22, 2010 at 12:48 am
A = Ally
63.
Ronnie | March 22, 2010 at 12:51 am
http://www.advocate.com/News/Daily_News/2010/03/2…
Posted on Advocate.com March 22, 2010
Prop 8 Repeal Effort Collects E-Signatures
By Julie Bolcer
"Restore Equality 2010, the campaign that seeks to repeal Proposition 8 at the California ballot box this November, announced that it is collecting digital signatures via a new application for the iPhone and iPod Touch."
(me) Oh I love being an iApple….updating iPhone today….hehehehe….
"The e-signature application represents a stepped-up effort for the campaign, which needs to collect nearly 700,000 signatures before the April 12 deadline in order to qualify for the 2010 ballot."
There are links within the article…….<3…Ronnie
64.
Bill | March 22, 2010 at 1:00 am
No one owes Robert an explanation for anything.
Also, last I checked, heterosexuals have not yet stripped me of my right to free speech.
Until then, I'll say what I like, Robert.
Also, every single thing in my post was true. I should know. I LIVED IT.
That's all.
65.
Sheryl | March 22, 2010 at 1:51 am
If you don't have an iPhone or an iPod Touch, how can one sign this petition?
66.
Sheryl | March 22, 2010 at 1:58 am
Back to Health Care Reform Bill. I was reading this morning that, while it does prohibit pre-existing conditions, this will be immediate for children but not until 2014 for adults. Which means that me and most of my friends would not be able to get coverage until then should we lose our jobs. And, those of you looking forward to finally getting coverage and have pre-existing conditions, will not be getting it anytime soon.
Anyone read anything about what the coverage is going to cost, more with pre-existing conditions or the same for everyone?
Sheryl B
67.
Ronnie | March 22, 2010 at 1:59 am
the links in the article on advocate.com have the forms to fill out and mail….their might be a way to do it digitally I didn't go though the whole thing yet…..<3….Ronnie
68.
Kathleen | March 22, 2010 at 2:02 am
You can download a petition here, then mail it to the address at the bottom of the form. Remember, you must be a California registered voter for your signature to count.
69.
Kathleen | March 22, 2010 at 2:03 am
Oops, forgot the link: http://www.signforequality.com/Main/Petition.aspx
70.
fiona64 | March 22, 2010 at 2:07 am
The Democratic Campaign called me yesterday to try to get me to donate, and I asked the person on the other end of the phone whether I could ask *her* some questions.
I asked her a) when the Democrats would stop throwing my LGBT friends under the bus with their delays on things like DADT and ENDA and b) to give me one good reason why I should not join the Socialist, Modern Whig or Green Party.
She informed that DADT had been in effect "since our country was founded" — which is a crock, of course, and I told her that. She also told me that the Democrats supported LGBT rights and that there were "firm plans in place" to help with various issues. Really?
She then informed me that the "one good reason not to join another party was that one had to consider the alternative." When I said "I am considering alternatives, which is why I asked you the question," she said "Well, the only alternative is the Republican party and you don't want to do that."
Argh! I told her to take me off of their calling list. I know that she's just some yutz with a clipboard trying to get money, but the mere fact that she was unaware until I told her that DADT was signed into law under Clinton … and that there were more than two political parties in the US was enough to send me over the edge. Throw in Democrats kowtowing to the anti-choice in this country and they are not going to see another dime out of me.
Love,
Fiona
71.
fiona64 | March 22, 2010 at 2:08 am
PS — I am, however, delighted that health care reform passed. It's not a perfect bill, and I think it gives too much to the insurance companies, but it can be *fixed* from this point and is a start.
Love,
Fiona
72.
Kathleen | March 22, 2010 at 2:10 am
This, from the document "Immediate Benefits" available here: http://dpc.senate.gov/dpcdoc-sen_health_care_bill…
The Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act will provide $5 billion in immediate federal support for a new program to provide affordable coverage to uninsured Americans with pre-existing conditions. This provision is effective 90 days after enactment, and coverage under this program will continue until new Exchanges are operational in 2014.
73.
Bob | March 22, 2010 at 2:12 am
@Ronnie, loved your definition to Robert on the word you created, and the play on words,
I am over 30 way way, but I just wanted to say , as a book lover, books are like us, they will never die, and there are a hudge following of book lovers who find nothing quiet equal to the excitement of turning the page, the feel of the paper, the smell of the ink,
Nor is there anything like finding a good bookstore, by that I mean the type that does not cater to the general public, doesn't stock best sellers. We have three book stores in the tiny commuity I live in, which says a lot about the people who make this home, even if for some it's just part time.
My favourite is Watermark Books, because the type of books you find there expand your mind, for example, on a recent quest for a title, the owner and I had a discussion, which I also find very enjoyable, when I told him I was following prop8, he said ahhh!!!! then you would be interested in reading ,and as he was talking he reached up and pulled down "The Family", we talked about the mess the U.S. was in, and because the titles I've been reading have to do with spirituallity , he informed me he was an atheist.
His wife did at one time order in a book for me from Oprah's best seller list, and when I picked it up she had methodically scraped off the Oprah sticker, that's how offensive they find best sellers, and that's what won my heart. There niche market (which bookstores need to survive) is the independent, or free thinker.
I'm not technologically inclined so haven't experimented with downloading books, but I was wondering if all books can be found on line. Like for example the small publishers who cater to one offs, I suppose places like u tube, would address that.
I also know many young people under thirty who have this love and appreciation for the written word in a form you can touch hold, underline, spill your coffee on , and there is no more joy than a friend passing a book like this to you after they've consumed it.
Know Ronnie, In reply to that post where you said "Listen Bob" I appreciate that straightforwardness of yours, as you can see I tend to be very opinionated, and long winded, just like the person who that post was referring to , so know I'm going to take your advice to her and STFup, (I enjoy your energy)
74.
fiona64 | March 22, 2010 at 2:20 am
Truth is, Ronnie, not everything is out there on the Internet.
As you know, I'm an author — but I'm also a voracious reader. As Bob said, there is something special about holding a book in your hand. I do read both eBooks and traditional print books, but the moment I really felt like an author was when I held that paperback from the UK in my hand and said "Someone liked my work enough to buy it and publish it. Wow."
Love,
Fiona
75.
Bob | March 22, 2010 at 2:27 am
Yes and know hopefully, Obama, will get in touch with the thing between his legs, realize he has balls, (hopefully) and then get to work, on adding the LGBT community into that reform, he had to let us go to get the POPES votes. And then carry on with all the other promises he made to us. STAND UP MAN, and remember your mother didn't mess your mind with religion as a child, that was good parenting, he stumbled into that as an adult, could be easier to regain ownership of your thoughts, if you realize what an opportunity your mother extended to you.
76.
Ronnie | March 22, 2010 at 2:37 am
Bob,
Don't get me wrong, I love Books too… I love to read…..I just bought 2 the other day, "A single Man"T by Isherwood and "Fairy Tales" by Cashorali……when I'm done reading "St. Nacho's" by Maxfield I will start reading the first one…….This new intro of technology is making it easier for people to carry all their favorite books where ever they go…..down size……But text books are dead….they cost too much…..they are too big…..and as you can see with what TX is doing….they lie…..<3…Ronnie
77.
dieter | March 22, 2010 at 2:56 am
thanks Kathleen for posting this. I am really getting annoyed at people who respond to info I put in here saying that I am wrong or don't know what I am talking about.
I do not post anything here until I have checked the facts, and there are several people here who love to post wrong information, and quickly discount things that they have no clue about. Pisses me off.
it is the kind of mis-information spread by people like sheryl that causes such conlfict in society and in the political problems we see happening now.
the post was irresponsible and incorrect, and quite possibly could have harmed someone who thought after her post that they had no hope.
People: investigate before you post.
78.
fiona64 | March 22, 2010 at 3:06 am
Ronnie, there are some schools experimenting with checking out an eReader to kids for the year and uploading all of their textbooks to it. As you point out, texts are *costly.* One of the things that stops me going back to school these days is that while tuition is not outrageous, the cost of texts *is.* I want to finish my anthropology degree, but can't afford to buy the danged books — no matter how useful they are as ongoing reference.
Love,
Fiona
79.
K!r!lleXXI | March 22, 2010 at 3:09 am
Way to go, Fiona!
My G-d! Even I would make a better advocate for Democrats!
80.
Alan E. | March 22, 2010 at 3:27 am
I saw Mary Roach speak last month. She is great! I like the point she makes about studying sex. If we know what is happening when it working correctly, then we will know what to focus on when something goes wrong.
81.
Dan Hess | March 22, 2010 at 3:56 am
Wait, A is Ally? So we're supporting people who support people? XD Yeah, like I said, we definitely need a WORD rather than an acronym.
82.
Ronnie | March 22, 2010 at 4:17 am
I like adding the word Ally because 1. it forces the Hateros to acknowledge that there are Straight people who support us and are considered apart of our community……2. It separates the demon spawned Hateros from the humans…..and 3. it Distinguishes that our community is not about sexuality but about who we are as a person……If they want to demonize, criminalize, alienate, segregate, discriminate, and degrade one then they must take the Uganda/Nazi route and include us all…..Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgendered, Queer, Questioning, Intersexed, and Ally…..but they will never be able to do that in this country….that is why we will win…..Anywho….there is one word for the whole thing….It's called HUMANS……the Hateros just refuse to accept that…..so sad……<3…Ronnie
83.
Sheryl | March 22, 2010 at 8:58 am
thanks, I am a California registered voter, so no problem there.
84.
Sheryl | March 22, 2010 at 9:13 am
Dieter, I'm sorry that my wording affended you. I read an article this morning that did not mention the pool, just that for adults, pre-existing conditions would not be covered until 2014. In my limited time before having to go to work, I did search trying to find more detailed info, but guess I didn't search for the correct words. I am glad that in 90 days there will be a pool established for those adults with pre-existing conditions.
Sheryl
85.
Robert | March 22, 2010 at 7:08 pm
@Everyone
Well, I can see now that 'hatero' has, and was intended to have, and different nuance than what leaps to my mind. Still, I have a dislike of using words in a way that gives such a potential for misunderstanding. And while those misunderstandings may be fairly few here, they are far more likely if the word is used elsewhere.
Besides, the English language already has a word for such people – bigots. It's shorter, has less potential for confusion and has a pleasing number of hard consonants, and so can double up as an expletive. What's not to like!
@Bill
Nobody is saying anything about stripping your right to free speech. Crying 'free speech' when your views are criticised is a pretty low move. You were tarring every member of a group with the same brush. This is exactly the sort of thing that the bigots do, and requires criticism.
@Bob
Don't be daft. Just because someone disagrees in some way, possibly vehemently, does not mean that they are one of the enemy. This sort of polarisation is not helpful at all. If you really must know, I'm bi, I'm not out but I won't lie if asked. But that shouldn't be relevant to anything I have said so far.
86.
Bob | March 23, 2010 at 1:53 am
@Robert, well that clears things up, welcome to the site, are you new, or have you been lurking? I'm not implying anything negative by the term lurking, I think that's a positive about this site, and a lot of people have access and may be learning things by that process. As well our opponents may be gaining insight into us as a community. It's also interesting to me to see what drives people from just reading, to jumping in and adding their views to the conversation, Which helps in terms of diversity of views.
Thanks also for going so far as to declare your orientation, and that you are not out. This site also is good for that, cause you have now come out to us, and it's safe because it's still anonymous.
You're right my question was daft, but the response was very enlightening , and encouraging, being daft in my questioning implies the right to disagree vehemently which you did, and hope you continue to do. so really Robert thanks for coming out. I celebrate that, .
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