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	<title>Comments on: The Minnesota Hearings</title>
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	<description>Perry v. Schwarzenegger: Tracking the right-wing</description>
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		<title>By: Kartenlegen gratis</title>
		<link>http://www.prop8trialtracker.com/2010/03/06/the-minnesota-hearings/#comment-222399</link>
		<dc:creator>Kartenlegen gratis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Mar 2011 15:23:43 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Hey! Can I ask what&#8217;s this template you&#039;re utilizing in your web site? thank you. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey! Can I ask what&rsquo;s this template you&#039;re utilizing in your web site? thank you.</p>
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		<title>By: Michelle Evans</title>
		<link>http://www.prop8trialtracker.com/2010/03/06/the-minnesota-hearings/#comment-219516</link>
		<dc:creator>Michelle Evans</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Mar 2010 12:48:50 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I would have to agree with Kirille that it is possible to outwardly change orientation, and to even inwardly believe it. However, I think a lot of people here might be misconstruing what he&#039;s trying to get across. He and I would both absolutely agree that it is a dangerous practice to do so, but there would be many people who would go through some sort of very harmful reparative therapy and come out the other end &quot;cured.&quot; 
 
The idea behind this garbage is that they have basically been brainwashed. There is no better term for it than that. Think about most religious belief systems and you find exactly the same thing. So, since it works so well on the masses to believe nonsensical and illogical things in religion, it is an offshoot of that to do reparative therapy and have someone actually &quot;believe&quot; they are now straight. 
 
That is what causes such great harm, in that underneath it all, nothing has really changed, but their minds have been forced to believe otherwise. Thus you have a dichotomy inside anyone&#039;s head that has been forced through this (or even done so willingly), that could, and almost certainly will, explode at some point in the future, leading to very harmful behavior and/or suicide. 
 
For evidence of this look directly into the LGBT community. It is not hard to find people who often speak about how they lived the &quot;standard&quot; lifestyle of a husband, wife, and 2.5 kids with the picket fence and all, only for it all to eventually boil over, and end with them coming out as gay, even when they didn&#039;t even consciously understand what was going on previously due to internal and unconscious repression. 
 
Reparative therapy just goes the opposite direction, in that the person figures out much earlier that they are actually LGBT, which leads those around them (usually in a very religious setting) to intervene and see that their behavior is &quot;corrected.&quot; 
 
These people would then absolutely believe that they are &quot;straight&quot; and &quot;cured&quot; because that&#039;s what they&#039;ve been told to believe, and in unfortunately many cases, what the person themselves wants to believe because they want to fit in and please those around them. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would have to agree with Kirille that it is possible to outwardly change orientation, and to even inwardly believe it. However, I think a lot of people here might be misconstruing what he&#039;s trying to get across. He and I would both absolutely agree that it is a dangerous practice to do so, but there would be many people who would go through some sort of very harmful reparative therapy and come out the other end &quot;cured.&quot; </p>
<p>The idea behind this garbage is that they have basically been brainwashed. There is no better term for it than that. Think about most religious belief systems and you find exactly the same thing. So, since it works so well on the masses to believe nonsensical and illogical things in religion, it is an offshoot of that to do reparative therapy and have someone actually &quot;believe&quot; they are now straight. </p>
<p>That is what causes such great harm, in that underneath it all, nothing has really changed, but their minds have been forced to believe otherwise. Thus you have a dichotomy inside anyone&#039;s head that has been forced through this (or even done so willingly), that could, and almost certainly will, explode at some point in the future, leading to very harmful behavior and/or suicide. </p>
<p>For evidence of this look directly into the LGBT community. It is not hard to find people who often speak about how they lived the &quot;standard&quot; lifestyle of a husband, wife, and 2.5 kids with the picket fence and all, only for it all to eventually boil over, and end with them coming out as gay, even when they didn&#039;t even consciously understand what was going on previously due to internal and unconscious repression. </p>
<p>Reparative therapy just goes the opposite direction, in that the person figures out much earlier that they are actually LGBT, which leads those around them (usually in a very religious setting) to intervene and see that their behavior is &quot;corrected.&quot; </p>
<p>These people would then absolutely believe that they are &quot;straight&quot; and &quot;cured&quot; because that&#039;s what they&#039;ve been told to believe, and in unfortunately many cases, what the person themselves wants to believe because they want to fit in and please those around them.</p>
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		<title>By: Ronnie</title>
		<link>http://www.prop8trialtracker.com/2010/03/06/the-minnesota-hearings/#comment-219515</link>
		<dc:creator>Ronnie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Mar 2010 10:17:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://prop8trialtracker.com/?p=1903#comment-219515</guid>
		<description>not everybody....just &quot;ex-gays&quot;....they are not so much liars as they are omitting the truth......nah....eff that...they are big old liars.....they are just as bad as Jewish Nazis.....&lt;3...Ronnie </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>not everybody&#8230;.just &quot;ex-gays&quot;&#8230;.they are not so much liars as they are omitting the truth&#8230;&#8230;nah&#8230;.eff that&#8230;they are big old liars&#8230;..they are just as bad as Jewish Nazis&#8230;..&lt;3&#8230;Ronnie</p>
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		<title>By: K!r!lleXXI</title>
		<link>http://www.prop8trialtracker.com/2010/03/06/the-minnesota-hearings/#comment-219514</link>
		<dc:creator>K!r!lleXXI</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Mar 2010 10:12:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://prop8trialtracker.com/?p=1903#comment-219514</guid>
		<description>@Petr Tome&#353; 
You didn&#039;t get my point. Well, I didn&#039;t deliver it properly. 
I explained it better &lt;a href=&quot;#comment-26087&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;above&lt;/a&gt;.  
 
--Kirill &#9829; &lt;i&gt;F&lt;/i&gt; </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Petr Tome&scaron;<br />
You didn&#039;t get my point. Well, I didn&#039;t deliver it properly.<br />
I explained it better <a href="#comment-26087" rel="nofollow">above</a>.  </p>
<p>&#8211;Kirill &hearts; <i>F</i></p>
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		<title>By: K!r!lleXXI</title>
		<link>http://www.prop8trialtracker.com/2010/03/06/the-minnesota-hearings/#comment-219513</link>
		<dc:creator>K!r!lleXXI</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Mar 2010 10:04:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://prop8trialtracker.com/?p=1903#comment-219513</guid>
		<description>@Ronnie 
Well, obviously, I&#039;m not gonna argue about your religious beliefs &#8212; if that&#039;s what you believe, go ahead and believe the hell out of it. My point was that you can trick your brain into thinking anything, including that you have changed your sexual orientation for real, completely, not just chose to ignore same-sex attractions, chose not to act on those attractions, and chose to pretend to be happy with someone of the opposite gender. I guess I was wrong to state that this trickery should be considered as the real change (we really don&#039;t know how these things work on some subconscious level), but I still claim this trickery will appear like the real deal, so your claim of everybody being a liar about &#8220;straightening up&#8221; is a bit of an overstatement. 
 
--Kirill &#9829; &lt;i&gt;F&lt;/i&gt; </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Ronnie<br />
Well, obviously, I&#039;m not gonna argue about your religious beliefs &mdash; if that&#039;s what you believe, go ahead and believe the hell out of it. My point was that you can trick your brain into thinking anything, including that you have changed your sexual orientation for real, completely, not just chose to ignore same-sex attractions, chose not to act on those attractions, and chose to pretend to be happy with someone of the opposite gender. I guess I was wrong to state that this trickery should be considered as the real change (we really don&#039;t know how these things work on some subconscious level), but I still claim this trickery will appear like the real deal, so your claim of everybody being a liar about &ldquo;straightening up&rdquo; is a bit of an overstatement. </p>
<p>&#8211;Kirill &hearts; <i>F</i></p>
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		<title>By: Ronnie</title>
		<link>http://www.prop8trialtracker.com/2010/03/06/the-minnesota-hearings/#comment-219512</link>
		<dc:creator>Ronnie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Mar 2010 06:58:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://prop8trialtracker.com/?p=1903#comment-219512</guid>
		<description>However I do agree that what ever they do to &quot;try to change&quot; (which they can&#039;t) is harmful...not just to them but anybody who is in their lives and will come into their lives....all practices should be illegal and all licenses taken away......I say give all these &quot;ex-gay&quot; Hateros by default lie detector tests in a public arena......&lt;3....Ronnie </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>However I do agree that what ever they do to &quot;try to change&quot; (which they can&#039;t) is harmful&#8230;not just to them but anybody who is in their lives and will come into their lives&#8230;.all practices should be illegal and all licenses taken away&#8230;&#8230;I say give all these &quot;ex-gay&quot; Hateros by default lie detector tests in a public arena&#8230;&#8230;&lt;3&#8230;.Ronnie</p>
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		<title>By: Ronnie</title>
		<link>http://www.prop8trialtracker.com/2010/03/06/the-minnesota-hearings/#comment-219511</link>
		<dc:creator>Ronnie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Mar 2010 06:43:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://prop8trialtracker.com/?p=1903#comment-219511</guid>
		<description>Nope....doesn&#039;t work....sexual orientation doesn&#039;t come from the brain...if that was then case then they could say it was a choice....its not a choice....sexual orientation comes from your soul and your heart....I&#039;m still sticking with all I said above.....just because they say it doesn&#039;t make it true.....&lt;3...Ronnie </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nope&#8230;.doesn&#039;t work&#8230;.sexual orientation doesn&#039;t come from the brain&#8230;if that was then case then they could say it was a choice&#8230;.its not a choice&#8230;.sexual orientation comes from your soul and your heart&#8230;.I&#039;m still sticking with all I said above&#8230;..just because they say it doesn&#039;t make it true&#8230;..&lt;3&#8230;Ronnie</p>
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		<title>By: Petr Tome&#353;</title>
		<link>http://www.prop8trialtracker.com/2010/03/06/the-minnesota-hearings/#comment-219510</link>
		<dc:creator>Petr Tome&#353;</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Mar 2010 06:01:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://prop8trialtracker.com/?p=1903#comment-219510</guid>
		<description>@K!r!lleXXI &quot;I believe changing sexual orientation is possible&quot; 
In 2009 the American Psychological Association Task Force on Appropriate Therapeutic Responses to Sexual Orientation conducted a systematic review of the peer-reviewed journal literature on sexual orientation change efforts (SOCE) and concluded: 
 
Efforts to change sexual orientation are unlikely to be successful and involve some risk of harm, contrary to the claims of SOCE practitioners and advocates. Even though the research and clinical literature demonstrate that same-sex sexual and romantic attractions, feelings, and behaviors are normal and positive variations of human sexuality, regardless of sexual orientation identity, the task force concluded that the population that undergoes SOCE tends to have strongly conservative religious views that lead them to seek to change their sexual orientation. Thus, the appropriate application of affirmative therapeutic interventions for those who seek SOCE involves therapist acceptance, support, and understanding of clients and the facilitation of clients&#8217; active coping, social support, and identity exploration and development, without imposing a specific sexual orientation identity outcome.  &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.apa.org/pi/lgbt/resources/therapeutic-response.pdf&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.apa.org/pi/lgbt/resources/therapeutic-...&lt;/a&gt; 
 
No major mental health professional organization has sanctioned efforts to change sexual orientation and virtually all of them have adopted policy statements cautioning the profession and the public about treatments that purport to change sexual orientation. These include the American Psychiatric Association, American Psychological Association, American Counseling Association, National Association of Social Workers in the USA, the Royal College of Psychiatrists, and the Australian Psychological Society.  &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.glad.org/uploads/docs/cases/2009-11-17-doma-aff-herek.pdf&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.glad.org/uploads/docs/cases/2009-11-17...&lt;/a&gt;  &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.rcpsych.ac.uk/press/pressreleasearchives/2009/statement.aspx&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.rcpsych.ac.uk/press/pressreleasearchiv...&lt;/a&gt;  &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.psychology.org.au/publications/tip_sheets/orientation/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.psychology.org.au/publications/tip_she...&lt;/a&gt; 
The American Psychological Association and the Royal College of Psychiatrists expressed concerns that the positions espoused by NARTH are not supported by the science and create an environment in which prejudice and discrimination can flourish.  &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.apa.org/pi/lgbt/resources/policy/ex-gay.pdf&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.apa.org/pi/lgbt/resources/policy/ex-ga...&lt;/a&gt;  &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.rcpsych.ac.uk/press/pressreleasearchives/2009/statement.aspx&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.rcpsych.ac.uk/press/pressreleasearchiv...&lt;/a&gt; </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@K!r!lleXXI &quot;I believe changing sexual orientation is possible&quot;<br />
In 2009 the American Psychological Association Task Force on Appropriate Therapeutic Responses to Sexual Orientation conducted a systematic review of the peer-reviewed journal literature on sexual orientation change efforts (SOCE) and concluded: </p>
<p>Efforts to change sexual orientation are unlikely to be successful and involve some risk of harm, contrary to the claims of SOCE practitioners and advocates. Even though the research and clinical literature demonstrate that same-sex sexual and romantic attractions, feelings, and behaviors are normal and positive variations of human sexuality, regardless of sexual orientation identity, the task force concluded that the population that undergoes SOCE tends to have strongly conservative religious views that lead them to seek to change their sexual orientation. Thus, the appropriate application of affirmative therapeutic interventions for those who seek SOCE involves therapist acceptance, support, and understanding of clients and the facilitation of clients&rsquo; active coping, social support, and identity exploration and development, without imposing a specific sexual orientation identity outcome.  <a href="http://www.apa.org/pi/lgbt/resources/therapeutic-response.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.apa.org/pi/lgbt/resources/therapeutic-&#8230;</a> </p>
<p>No major mental health professional organization has sanctioned efforts to change sexual orientation and virtually all of them have adopted policy statements cautioning the profession and the public about treatments that purport to change sexual orientation. These include the American Psychiatric Association, American Psychological Association, American Counseling Association, National Association of Social Workers in the USA, the Royal College of Psychiatrists, and the Australian Psychological Society.  <a href="http://www.glad.org/uploads/docs/cases/2009-11-17-doma-aff-herek.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.glad.org/uploads/docs/cases/2009-11-17&#8230;</a>  <a href="http://www.rcpsych.ac.uk/press/pressreleasearchives/2009/statement.aspx" rel="nofollow">http://www.rcpsych.ac.uk/press/pressreleasearchiv&#8230;</a>  <a href="http://www.psychology.org.au/publications/tip_sheets/orientation/" rel="nofollow">http://www.psychology.org.au/publications/tip_she&#8230;</a><br />
The American Psychological Association and the Royal College of Psychiatrists expressed concerns that the positions espoused by NARTH are not supported by the science and create an environment in which prejudice and discrimination can flourish.  <a href="http://www.apa.org/pi/lgbt/resources/policy/ex-gay.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.apa.org/pi/lgbt/resources/policy/ex-ga&#8230;</a>  <a href="http://www.rcpsych.ac.uk/press/pressreleasearchives/2009/statement.aspx" rel="nofollow">http://www.rcpsych.ac.uk/press/pressreleasearchiv&#8230;</a></p>
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		<title>By: K!r!lleXXI</title>
		<link>http://www.prop8trialtracker.com/2010/03/06/the-minnesota-hearings/#comment-219509</link>
		<dc:creator>K!r!lleXXI</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Mar 2010 03:20:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://prop8trialtracker.com/?p=1903#comment-219509</guid>
		<description>@Ronnie 
 
I&#039;m afraid I&#039;ll have to disagree with you just a teeny bit. Because &lt;b&gt;&lt;i&gt;I know&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/b&gt; what a human brain is capable of (&lt;i&gt;and, believe me, what I know from my own experience is nothing compared to what human brain is really capable of, I just have a bit of a better understanding&lt;/i&gt;). 
 
&lt;b&gt;Our brain&lt;/b&gt; is what makes us human, what makes us &lt;i&gt;us&lt;/i&gt;... and we are capable of screwing ourselves into pretty much &lt;i&gt;anything&lt;/i&gt;! &lt;i&gt;ANYTHING&lt;/i&gt;! &lt;b&gt;Even into changing our sexual orientation!&lt;/b&gt; But it&#039;s a miserable path, full of self-loathing and feeling of self-worthlessness, it&#039;s the worst experience ever... 
 
We know that many cold-blooded serial killers become those heartless bastards after they go through some serious psychological trauma (&lt;i&gt;like witnessing a brutal murder of a parent in a very young age [toddler, preschooler]&lt;/i&gt;). I believe, the change of sexual orientation really happens when people undergo some kind of psychotherapy that basically becomes the equivalent of that &lt;i&gt;&lt;b&gt;brutal psychological trauma&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/i&gt; &#8212; so brutal and so horrendous that people &lt;b&gt;&lt;i&gt;have to change&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/b&gt; in order to survive mentally, to stay sane. 
 
So, my point is, you can change sexual orientation, but this will be a really traumatic experience, the worst kind of torture for your mind. And this change may be real &#8212; without any same-sex attraction left... because any attraction of that kind will turn into hatred, the worst kind of contempt, as a coping mechanism to ensure you never go back... 
 
Yes, I&#039;ll repeat, I believe changing sexual orientation is possible (because I believe anything is possible when we&#039;re dealing with human brain), but it is extremely hard and extremely traumatic for anyone&#039;s consciousness, it goes beyond any rationale and should be banned as a subkind of torture. Why fix something if it&#039;s not broken? Why break something into little pieces if all you want is to fit in into something smaller? &#8212; &lt;i&gt;Because you simply can?&lt;/i&gt; This is just sick and has no good reason. So, this is the real argument &#8212; not that it&#039;s possible, but that it&#039;s pointless and cruel. 
 
--Kirill &#9829; &lt;i&gt;F&lt;/i&gt; </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Ronnie </p>
<p>I&#039;m afraid I&#039;ll have to disagree with you just a teeny bit. Because <b><i>I know</i></b> what a human brain is capable of (<i>and, believe me, what I know from my own experience is nothing compared to what human brain is really capable of, I just have a bit of a better understanding</i>). </p>
<p><b>Our brain</b> is what makes us human, what makes us <i>us</i>&#8230; and we are capable of screwing ourselves into pretty much <i>anything</i>! <i>ANYTHING</i>! <b>Even into changing our sexual orientation!</b> But it&#039;s a miserable path, full of self-loathing and feeling of self-worthlessness, it&#039;s the worst experience ever&#8230; </p>
<p>We know that many cold-blooded serial killers become those heartless bastards after they go through some serious psychological trauma (<i>like witnessing a brutal murder of a parent in a very young age [toddler, preschooler]</i>). I believe, the change of sexual orientation really happens when people undergo some kind of psychotherapy that basically becomes the equivalent of that <i><b>brutal psychological trauma</b></i> &mdash; so brutal and so horrendous that people <b><i>have to change</i></b> in order to survive mentally, to stay sane. </p>
<p>So, my point is, you can change sexual orientation, but this will be a really traumatic experience, the worst kind of torture for your mind. And this change may be real &mdash; without any same-sex attraction left&#8230; because any attraction of that kind will turn into hatred, the worst kind of contempt, as a coping mechanism to ensure you never go back&#8230; </p>
<p>Yes, I&#039;ll repeat, I believe changing sexual orientation is possible (because I believe anything is possible when we&#039;re dealing with human brain), but it is extremely hard and extremely traumatic for anyone&#039;s consciousness, it goes beyond any rationale and should be banned as a subkind of torture. Why fix something if it&#039;s not broken? Why break something into little pieces if all you want is to fit in into something smaller? &mdash; <i>Because you simply can?</i> This is just sick and has no good reason. So, this is the real argument &mdash; not that it&#039;s possible, but that it&#039;s pointless and cruel. </p>
<p>&#8211;Kirill &hearts; <i>F</i></p>
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		<title>By: K!r!lleXXI</title>
		<link>http://www.prop8trialtracker.com/2010/03/06/the-minnesota-hearings/#comment-219508</link>
		<dc:creator>K!r!lleXXI</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Mar 2010 02:41:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://prop8trialtracker.com/?p=1903#comment-219508</guid>
		<description>@Dennis 
Anyone from anywhere could type &quot;Dennis&quot; in username input field and leave that comment, nobody&#039;s thinking about you. It&#039;s a very popular name. May I suggest you to change your username &#8212; add some letter (like from your middle name or last name), or something else, to make it more unique? I&#039;m sure that guy didn&#039;t even know there is another Dennis here, he just typed it and left his cowardly comment. So, stop sweating about it and change your username/nickname. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Dennis<br />
Anyone from anywhere could type &quot;Dennis&quot; in username input field and leave that comment, nobody&#039;s thinking about you. It&#039;s a very popular name. May I suggest you to change your username &mdash; add some letter (like from your middle name or last name), or something else, to make it more unique? I&#039;m sure that guy didn&#039;t even know there is another Dennis here, he just typed it and left his cowardly comment. So, stop sweating about it and change your username/nickname.</p>
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